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NarcissusLovesEcho t1_j8rznwo wrote

I haven't heard one person who really knows about the case who doesn't think SCOTUS is going to rule against Harvard and probably squash affirmative action entirely. So yeah, this rings true to me.

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liortulip OP t1_j8s016d wrote

Yeah - I was pretty surprised that there could be this much certainty in any court ruling this controversial, but it seems that the stance of each supreme court justice is well understood.

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Yalay t1_j8vxiqt wrote

The oral argument already happened. It's usually pretty clear how most of the justices are going to vote based on the questions they ask, not to mention their past decisions/writings on the topic.

And for this particular issue, the last time affirmative action was in front of the court it was 4-3 to uphold it. All three dissenting votes are still on the court, while three of the four from the majority have left. Add in Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett who weren't on the court at the time, and it's pretty likely at least two of them will vote to strike down AA.

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NikTheHNIC t1_j8um17c wrote

Instead of affirmative action based on race, why don’t they create a system that gives chances to individuals who grew up in school districts that receive minimal funding. Those that deserve help will receive it, regardless of race

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rdhight t1_j8w9cz4 wrote

> Those that deserve help will receive it, regardless of race

That's why they don't do it.

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Yalay t1_j8vwzp5 wrote

Colleges already do that.

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meister2983 t1_j8v4cdb wrote

Because most school districts receive similar funding in the US.

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Lemonio t1_j8ve9fu wrote

I don’t think that’s true - lots of funding is based on local taxes and those don’t bring in the same revenue everywhere

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meister2983 t1_j8vh4y1 wrote

Offset by state and federal funding. See here.

> on average, poor students attend schools that are at least as well-funded as their more advantaged peers.

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Lemonio t1_j8vhimy wrote

That article also says that there are big differences in funding across states

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meister2983 t1_j8wt70l wrote

Fair, there's variance, but I don't see what this has to do with outcomes of students.

Utah has high test scores, and low funding. DC the exact opposite.

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NikTheHNIC t1_j8v4qh2 wrote

I did not know that. Still does not mean all school districts are created equally though. There are definitely some where the students are not offered the same quality of education

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thorspeepee t1_j8x4p2v wrote

Lower income districts receive MORE funding... throwing money at schools doesn't fix bad/absent parenting.

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Such-Armadillo8047 t1_j8s661a wrote

I’m not surprised—Edward Blum also helped spearhead (along with others) Shelby County v. Holder in 2013 after not winning in 2009 for some utility district IIRC. He’s behind “Students for Fair Admissions.” He lost in 2016 in Abigail Fisher v. UT Austin IIRC, so 7 years later he’s trying again with Harvard and a FAR more conservative court, even when Scalia was still alive.

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NewDeviceNewUsername t1_j8tq1a4 wrote

Good, then perhaps they can get rid of their own diversity hires

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[deleted] t1_j8ulu9g wrote

[deleted]

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lankyevilme t1_j8uxwm2 wrote

Someday perhaps we can judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

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PlatypusAmbitious430 t1_j96zpr2 wrote

>Someday perhaps we can judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

That's not going to happen in the near future.

In America, that's never been the case.

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SignificantDigits491 t1_j8vc8av wrote

Pulling folks with dark skins back up after racists pushed them down is bad now. Ok got it.

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NewDeviceNewUsername t1_j8vihcu wrote

I was mostly alluding to that as the only possible reason Clarence Thomas would make the court. Sadly it wasn't affirmative action, but rather corruption that got him a seat.

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RedBlueMage t1_j8v3myd wrote

I don't like this SCOTUS and can definitely accept that we have race based inequality in our country. However, I will say I won't be sad to see affirmative action practices struck down. I think its an inadequate way to address systemic inequalities.

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4ucklehead t1_j8xu9ko wrote

There are more potential outcomes than these...a lot of times a ruling will chip away at one aspect or just be somewhere in the middle (like when they approved affirmative action, they included a 25 year sunset after which they posited it wouldn't be needed anymore.... it wasn't a flat blanket approval), so the use of an either/or model is overly simple.

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thecouplewithjoints t1_j8xipbv wrote

The question I ask as a Canadian where human rights are protected by law.

Why doesn't the US have that too?

We are very far from perfect and we have many years to go still . . . But on the whole, we don't take kindly to racism. We have come a long way from being the tormentors of the indigenous we were.

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broyoyoyoyo t1_j8zlpfw wrote

To be fair fellow Canadian, Canadian universities do something similar, especially at law and med schools. Black & Indigenous students have lower GPA and LSAT/MCAT requirements for admission. Technically, that does mean that somebody of a different race can be passed over for a seat even if they have a stronger application since there are limited seats. Not commenting on whether that's right or wrong, just pointing it out.

And the US does protect many human rights by law, which is why their Supreme Court will probably rule against Harvard.

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thecouplewithjoints t1_j8znt2h wrote

Understand now. Thank you. I used to follow the issues but Trump kinda ruined politics for me. Too much trolling.

I'll look into this story.

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PlatypusAmbitious430 t1_j96zu4a wrote

>Black & Indigenous students have lower GPA and LSAT/MCAT requirements for admission. Technically, that does mean that somebody of a different race can be passed over for a seat even if they have a stronger application since there are limited seats

Source? I'm not Canadian but I had no idea that Canada had a similar system.

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broyoyoyoyo t1_j97d3ei wrote

You can find the info on some of the requirements pages of law/med schools. Most have separate "Black Student" and "Indigenous Student" streams. Some schools outright list the less rigorous standards.

Here are the requirements for Queens Law. General students need at least a 3.7 GPA, Black students need a 3.5.

Not saying that that's wrong, I agree with the idea that a meritocracy is only fair when everyone starts at the same place. But racial discrimination does get icky.

I prefer the way some other schools in Canada do it, by looking at economic factors instead. Instead of asking "are you race X", they ask "Have you ever been to a food bank, are your parents unemployed, etc".

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PlatypusAmbitious430 t1_j97dub6 wrote

That's so icky to me.

Is this not illegal in Canada as well then?

And to have it so brazenly on a site is beyond outrageous.

At least schools in the US try and pretend that they don't use it often (not saying it's acceptable but it's outrageous to me either way).

>I prefer the way some other schools in Canada do it, by looking at economic factors instead. Instead of asking "are you race X", they ask "Have you ever been to a good bank, are your parents unemployed, etc".

I have no problem with this.

That's how the UK does it at the moment.

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broyoyoyoyo t1_j97fm5z wrote

Well it might be unconstitutional. Race is a protected class and racial discrimination is explicitly forbidden in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

>Everyone is equal and has the right to equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination, especially discrimination based on race, national or ethic origin, color, religion, sex, age, or mental or physical disability. This right does not preclude laws designed to ameliorate disadvantageous conditions that exist because of these factors.

I suppose where it gets messy is that these schools aren't penalizing a specific race like Harvard is, they're boosting 2 other races. Now that last part in the Charter

>This right does not preclude laws designed to ameliorate disadvantageous conditions that exist because of these factors.

might make it legal. The government can make laws to help/protect a race that is affected by discrimination. Can universities make policies that do the same? A court would have to decide, and I don't think anyone has taken these schools to court over this yet.

But I'm not a lawyer, so take that all with a grain of salt.

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mfdonuts t1_j8uybcu wrote

Jesus Christ, I gotta get outta here

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Iffykindofguy t1_j8xh8fz wrote

Of course, the supreme court is not based in law anymore its based in the feelings of the right

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bobli200 t1_j8vhvt3 wrote

Gender based affirmative action has long been accepted and practiced. The female Supreme Court Justice, Amy Berrett, was nominated by Trump because of her gender. to replace Justice Ginsburg. Now imagine the same Justice, to rule against race based affirmative action.

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