Submitted by Ok_Acanthisitta5799 t3_11f2ujf in dataisbeautiful
Comments
JackdiQuadri97 t1_jahwz9i wrote
Ratio between the two, descending order
NonZeroSumJames t1_jalhn2s wrote
Aha, that's good to know, otherwise, just visually it gives the impression that the wealthier the country the larger the gap is. Whereas the ordering shows there is no such correlation.
JackdiQuadri97 t1_jalmzom wrote
Yeah it's difficult to notice that
inorout00 t1_jaham5p wrote
It's not a pay gap. It's an earnings gap. If women were actually being underpaid then all men would be out of jobs because it would be cheaper to employ women.
The "pay" gap has never passed the sniff test
TheDiano t1_jak5pol wrote
Sir this is Reddit!!! Don’t come in here with that heresy!
[deleted] t1_jal8ci1 wrote
[removed]
Riegler77 t1_jahvae2 wrote
An employee's pay is their earning.
Employees are hired by humans, humans do not make rational decisions. If a pay gap is caused by a system undervaluation of women's abilities this would cause employers to offer women less.
Kesshh t1_jahcx57 wrote
That’s like a completely false simplification. Employment has a large number of factors that affect the supply and demand. Proximity to the work location affects available workers. Skill/experience affects available workers. Need for income affects tolerances in pay gap. Lack of choices affects tolerances in pay gap. Just to name a few.
Autistom t1_jahdyxd wrote
True, that was not the best argument. But calling this a pay gap is intentionally missleading, since it takes averages over all professions for both genders and then implies that the difference means women get paid less for the same work. The truth is though, that almost all pay gap is due to different carreer prefferences between the genders - to use the most cliche example the technological faculties have majority of men while social faculties have majority of women. Once you count in the prefferences, the pay gap shrinks almost to zero.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahfh1n wrote
> The truth is though, that almost all pay gap is due to different carreer prefferences between the genders
Why are critical industries dominated by women paid less on average in the majority of circumstances though?
Autistom t1_jahg0o0 wrote
Well its sad but it is econnomically impossible (unless you are rooting for communism) to pay a person who helps generate huge profits such as IT specialist or financial analyst the same wage as to someone who is a social services worker. I am not saying that its not an honourable and important profession, but generates much smaller financial value.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahgro3 wrote
It’s interesting that you chose social worker as an example. The gender pay gap has always been observed in bureaucratic jobs that are among the many, many critical functions in society that aren’t measured on income generating ability.
> Well its sad but it is econnomically impossible (unless you are rooting for communism) to pay a person who helps generate huge profits such as IT specialist or financial analyst the same wage as to someone who is a social services worker.
And don’t you think it’s remarkable that all over the world it’s the female dominated gigs that we just can’t seem to justify paying more for. Can’t possibly pay the nurses more even in the midst of a labour shortage … but the IT guy needs a competitive package without question. Isn’t it weird that that situation always seems to replicate along gender lines all over the world?
Forget the justice off it or any ideas about changing it, don’t you just find that phenomenon interesting? One hell of a coincidence, right?
Autistom t1_jahim73 wrote
No I dont really find that remarkable. On average, men are more interrested in things and women in people. Thats why the prefference difference is mostly the same acrost the world and why the female preffered professions pay less - you sell things easier than you sell empathy.
As to the IT guys vs Nurses example - there is no person deciding these things. No evil patriarch setting the wages. I would guess that there is greater demand for IT professionals (as they generate more profit) than for nurses on the market or that there are less people capable of becoming IT professionals than those capable of becomming nurses in the population. It has nothing to do with gender.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahj1y6 wrote
I can’t help but feel like you still have a pretty basic misunderstanding of what the words “gender pay gap” describe.
An evil overlord is not really part of it.
Autistom t1_jahn7er wrote
Oh I think we agree on the fact that women preffered professions are paid less, even though not intentionally and that can be a meaning of these words.
But what most people take of the “pay gap” is that women are somehow paid less regardless of the profession and that is wrong and has severe consequences in the society.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahp9nt wrote
> Oh I think we agree on the fact that women preffered professions are paid less, even though not intentionally and that can be a meaning of these words.
That is literally the meaning of those words. Anything else is just a failure to understand what the term was even referring to.
Kingkyle18 t1_jal3xg6 wrote
The term is literally used over and over for “women get paid less for doing the same thing a man does”…..it’s wrong and only gullible people fall for it
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jalbbca wrote
That’s incorrect
Kingkyle18 t1_jalco90 wrote
Woah you got me there….
[deleted] t1_jahkz6b wrote
[removed]
Kingkyle18 t1_jal3s1k wrote
You have it ingrained in your head that businesses are so greedy but they only want to pay men….both can’t be true
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jalbcoc wrote
You don’t seem to understand what the term gender pay gap describes
Kingkyle18 t1_jalcscn wrote
Haha you again saying that no one understands “gender pay gap”….glad you have your own understanding of words unique to yourself
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jaljfdo wrote
Most people understand it. You and the others who think it’s an attack on men clearly don’t
Pressed_Thumb t1_jaivern wrote
I think the problem in your understanding is assuming any salary should be measured or "justified" by anything other than the income generated by the employee.
In capitalism, prices come from the market process: supply and demand, that's it.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jajep1t wrote
You think all jobs generate income?
Nurses? Teachers? Police? Firefighters?
Pressed_Thumb t1_jam0i2k wrote
Yes, I do. All those services are useful and are paid for, they add value to people in society.
Just because you relate those jobs with public services (that you don't pay directly), it doesn't mean they couldn't be priced properly by the market.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jam0qku wrote
So you seem to acknowledge that a gender pay gap exists, you just don’t think it’s something that needs addressing then, even when you’re talking about jobs specifically paid for with tax dollars
Pressed_Thumb t1_jannixx wrote
I'm not well acquainted with the data and I don't think the data presented in this graph is useful at all to understand the issue (as I discussed in other comments). So I can't say I acknowledge that it exists.
I would say this is something that needs to be addressed if it was clear that women make less than men when performing exactly the same job, out of sheer discrimination.
By looking at this data alone, there could be so many different phenomena skewing the average. It could be that women prefer professions that make less money. It could be that women have a greater chance of stopping their careers to take care of their families. If that's the case, then the gap in the average is not an issue, IMO.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jaokytd wrote
There are indeed many different phenomena that skew the average male. Women choosing professions that make less money is among them.
The question is, of course, why is it that professions chosen by women almost always seem to be valued less monetarily, even when they’re among the most important and in demand jobs in society.
Taking care of families is another part of it.
And, while it’s not an issue for you, it is an issue for women and the government who have to plan and account for the personal and community impacts of an enormous section of society being less prepared for an independent and healthy retirement
Pressed_Thumb t1_jaqm5gt wrote
What do you mean you say a profession is valued less? Do you want to suggest that it's done deliberately by someone or something?
The value of each profession is always a reflection of the market, that is, supply and demand. The employee always wants to be paid more and the employer always wants to pay as little as possible (regardless of the employee's gender).
If women were universally valued less as employees, that would just create a massive opportunity for companies hiring only women to have margins greater than their competitors. In a short time, many other companies would seize the same opportunity, increasing the demand for women's labor and thus normalizing the wages across gender.
My speculative take on this is that the biological differences between genders reflect on their average personality traits, making them choose jobs differently.
For being more competitive, men tend to pursue high-income careers and positions. Also, men have a predilection for things instead of people, which is a driver for choosing STEM careers. On the other hand, women gravitate more toward the humanities and don't focus so much on increasing their income. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, but on average, this seems to be the case.
Autistom t1_jan9qay wrote
On the contrary - its precisely because these jobs dont generate direct income that the have to be paid from your taxes and therefore are paid less than positions in the free market where you can increase salaries of the most valuable positions to attract better employees and generate more profit.
But, as the others have probably realised by now, you will just rewert to your ultimate “you dont understand the term” or “your opinion is just incorrect” argument again. Alas this is my last comment in this pointless crusade - try to be thankful that the system works even though you dont fully understand it is my final advice (othervise the people working these unfarly underpaid social services but we doing manual labour by now).
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jao50hc wrote
What a complete load of high school rubbish
Autistom t1_jao6dfw wrote
And again - thats not an argument. You are not capable of defending your believes so you resort to insults.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jao6my6 wrote
It’s been explained to you.
What you just said is made up nonsense
Kingkyle18 t1_jal2sj6 wrote
Can’t explain economics to psychology majors…..
Pressed_Thumb t1_jahfjpa wrote
Very insightful. Considering what you said, would the next step in the analysis be to normalize all salaries by dividing by the profession average?
Riegler77 t1_jahw8a6 wrote
One's profession is not just affected by one's preference. If women are less likely to be promoted to higher-paying positions regardless of their abilities this will cause an unfair pay gap that will not show up once you normalize by position.
Anyway, even after accounting for position there is still a pay gap.
Pressed_Thumb t1_jaicifl wrote
If that's the case, the gap would show up when normalizing for industry or sector. Actually, there might come nice insights from those normalizations.
Autistom t1_jahhne3 wrote
Yeah that sounds like a way to do it. I would just take the pay difference in each profession separately and then made an average of that.
TheDiano t1_jak5m1y wrote
I didn’t read your comment but starting with “That’s like a” doesn’t really help whatever point you’re trying to make
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahb41u wrote
You just don’t understand the concept, it seems
“Underpaid” is not what anyone is talking about. They’re discussing the social phenomenon that sees jobs dominated by women earning less than men occurring right across the planet, and the various social implications of it.
It’s weird that you guys feel victimised by this discussion
Any-Bottle-4910 t1_jahm1hx wrote
Not victimized, just falsely accused. Women are just as smart on average as men. Zero difference, though the distribution curve is different. The data is clear.
Women go to college knowing their career choice doesn’t make as much, and do it anyway.
Here’s an anecdote-
I got my latest degree in gaming and simulation. It pays well. The male female ratio was at least 10:1. The degree had 3 tracks: coding, management, and graphics. The expected pay for each is in the same order, and made well known throughout the program. I met only 2 girls in the management track, and all the rest were in graphics. Zero picked coding. Not one!
When I asked, I got the exact same answer each time: “I don’t want to do that”.
Well, I didn’t want to do management. I wanted to do graphics. Desperately in fact. The difference? They didn’t have the income pressure I did. I HAD TO CHASE THE CASH. They just did what they liked.
I imagine several of them are now complaining they don’t make as much as some fellow graduates because of an “ism”. Riiiight.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahm6ch wrote
Accused of what?
Any-Bottle-4910 t1_jai1zcr wrote
Men actively seeking to hold women back or down by underpaying them.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jajegr5 wrote
Where did someone say that?
Any-Bottle-4910 t1_jam1idi wrote
Have you read anything anywhere ever? Start with this post’s comments.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jam1rf1 wrote
The only people making that claim are guys like you, who are claiming it doesn’t exist because you’ve failed to understand what it means or what is being represented by data such as that in the OP.
The fact that many of you bought a ridiculous line from some Peterson-like clown doesn’t make it any less ridiculous, unfortunately.
Gender pay gaps are a real thing - and they’re not the product of any nefarious conspiracy .
Any-Bottle-4910 t1_jam2rs6 wrote
Yeah, the Patriarchy made me say that. My bad.
I thought I was disagreeing with you on the merits. Now I see that the problem is that I just don’t understand. If I did, I could ignore the math and feel better about my new found moral superiority.
I thought the constant drumbeat about men and the patriarchy was leveled at men and the patriarchy, but I was wrong. It’s “the system”, and we can’t blame that on men nor the patriarchy, except when we do, until someone calls that out, and then we don’t. Got it.
So then who’s fault is it?
Apparently it just cannot be women knowingly choosing lower paid careers, working less hours, taking more time off, refusing to move for better work, not taking as many risks, not starting as many businesses, not asking for raises, nor dropping out of the workforce entirely because “the kids are growing up so fast, Brad, and I don’t want to miss it.”
So who’s to blame?
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jam2yjk wrote
No one’s to blame. It’s an artefact of a few thousand years of civilisation.
[deleted] t1_jamo2kp wrote
[removed]
Paxisstinkt t1_jahcq79 wrote
Because it's bs. It's not allowed by law to pay less for a certain gender for the same work where I live and still the gap is huge.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahcuzi wrote
Gender pay gap doesn’t necessarily mean for the same work. It can include that sometimes but that’s not what it means
Paxisstinkt t1_jahit9c wrote
Yeah that's why it's bs the way it is usually presented and shown. If you want to make a point then, it is about choice and not about the pay.
Women and men chose different jobs, maybe we are not the same? Maybe women with high paying jobs are not as happy as stay home moms? Maybe not, but where is this data?
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahjqs1 wrote
That’s the gender pay gap you just described.
Paxisstinkt t1_jahkay2 wrote
So what point are you making? What is the problem, is there a problem and whose fault is it?
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahl4ai wrote
> Whose fault is it
It’s no one’s fault. It’s a phenomenon in society that we now find ourselves with many thousands of years into our journey through civilisation. To observe it and discuss it, and wonder about whether and how it provides us with an optimal situation individually, for the community, or for the economy, is not really something you need to see as a source of conflict or a personal attack.
You clearly can see that the gender pay gap is there. You just described it. You can discuss what it is, means or doesn’t mean without immaturely just declaring it doesn’t exist or that it’s some affront.
Paxisstinkt t1_jahpsre wrote
True, but what I mostly see nowadays in society is to search for victims and perpetrators to correspond to a certain narrative, feminsim.
That's equality of outcome and the way it is done today, it is sexist again.
We should focus on equality of opportunity and the point I am making is that in western societies we have it mostly.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahqlvj wrote
Be that as it may, the gender pay gap exists and presents far more interesting questions than any discussions about some hypothetical individual’s victim narrative
And I think you’re right to call out victim narratives, but I think everyone should be a bit careful of slipping into one. I think some people fall into this trap by inferring accusations that aren’t there in this discussion
Riegler77 t1_jahuj5f wrote
Where I live murder is illegal, guess what?
Paxisstinkt t1_jahw24i wrote
So we should be an anarchist society? What point are you trying to make?
Riegler77 t1_jahwqp5 wrote
My point is that just because there is a law that prohibits pay discrimination does not mean that there is no pay discrimination.
Paxisstinkt t1_jahxc56 wrote
Then introduce a law where you can inform yourself about your collagues wage& sue the company. - Oh wait, we already have that?
gnarlycarly18 t1_jahgcx3 wrote
Breaking news: employers often break the fucking law.
Paxisstinkt t1_jahjxy0 wrote
Breaking news: You can sue companies that break the law.
You can also inform yourself by law about the wage of your colleagues where I live.
So, what point are you trying to make?
[deleted] t1_jahmnys wrote
Stupid take.
[deleted] t1_jahbmbx wrote
[deleted]
thedragonturtle t1_jahbnm7 wrote
If the chart were redrawn for women with children vs women without children the pay gap would look the same
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahbubt wrote
Correct. Having children and caring for them is another part of why there is a pay gap.
thedragonturtle t1_jahc78q wrote
To fix this, we need to make it normal for men to take time off work for a couple of years to look after their kids.
It shouldnt be called a pay gap because that makes it sound like women are paid less for the same work.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahckq0 wrote
No one said anything about the same work. If you’ve understood it that way then I think it is fair to say that you haven’t actually understood the concept, isn’t it?
The question is usually about why female dominated industries, despite being absolutely critical to society, tend to have less monetary value attached to them. Examples of such skilled work are frontline medicine and education; critical yet undervalued compared to say, plumbers and bricklayers, which are male dominated skilled professions that attract very good wages
laufhannes t1_jahcic8 wrote
The presentation is highly misleading. For Ethiopia, it's a factor of more than 2, but it looks like no difference at all.
Pressed_Thumb t1_jahey3d wrote
I don't think it makes sense to compare absolute pay gaps. At least, present it together with a percentual value and sort the countries by the relative gap.
Ok_Acanthisitta5799 OP t1_jahe9aq wrote
However the ordering is by % gap basis. I did want to suggest that Ethiopia has a big problem, when the earnings irrespective of male or female is extremely low compared to World average.
[deleted] t1_jal81ij wrote
[removed]
NonZeroSumJames t1_jali2uz wrote
It is the case that women are getting more degrees than men at present, but as shown by Pew the pay gap continues relatively steadily.
[deleted] t1_jamhcvo wrote
[removed]
NonZeroSumJames t1_jank1jp wrote
Okay, I’ll make sure to just take the word of some dude on the internet next time.
[deleted] t1_jaq75jh wrote
[removed]
NonZeroSumJames t1_jasutm7 wrote
You have provided no supporting links or evidence for any of the claims you have made. So I am going to continue to trust Pew over some random guy on the internet’s opinions.
Think_gawd t1_jahe39b wrote
When data presentation = dogshit
Kesshh t1_jahc62b wrote
Seems to have a build in bias. The lower the pay, the lesser the gap. What if the pay is adjusted to some sort of average-standard deviation type representation?
MealMorsels t1_jahe0y6 wrote
Yeah, it should be shown as a percentage of the pay instead
Kingkyle18 t1_jal2ko1 wrote
No! We post graphs and use no critical thinking, then suggest graph should look different again with no critical thinking.
Ok_Acanthisitta5799 OP t1_jaherbt wrote
Interesting. The graph is ordered by the highest %gap. Ethiopia has the highest % gap. But it would be unfair to highlight that considering their pay is well below the world average.
[deleted] t1_jahhmnj wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_jah9nwf wrote
[deleted]
Yeehaw0451 t1_jahb6ky wrote
Why would it be a shot at the USA if similar PPP income countries in Western Europe show the same or wider pay gap?
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahbikd wrote
Yeah, there seem to be a few wider than the US
[deleted] t1_jajhnkl wrote
[deleted]
Yeehaw0451 t1_jajy52d wrote
Come on dude, not everything is an anti-US conspiracy.
Ok_Acanthisitta5799 OP t1_jaheico wrote
It's the ILO data. They don't cover all geographies. For the ones they cover, some of them don't have enough data vintage. So excluded them.
Total-Economy4783 t1_jaic65g wrote
I believe in gender pay gap when you show me an example of two individuals of opposite sex having the exact same experience, education, workload and role with different pay.
Kingkyle18 t1_jal40iy wrote
Exactly, there isn’t one!
Paxisstinkt t1_jahf4iw wrote
This data presentation is utter bs. Like what point are you trying to make?
JoeyBagODeezNutz t1_jaiqm41 wrote
Is this a total average of salaries or comparisons at the same exact position? I think it’s most likely the former and very misleading.
Available_Ad4135 t1_jaldz7a wrote
In the Netherlands, one of the reasons the gap is so high because many women chose to work part-time after they start a family. Due to the strong family orientation of the culture, that option is available.
That has two implications:
- They work less days (my wife works 2 days, for example).
- They are usually ineligible for more senior people manager roles due to only logging on for part of the week.
capybara_from_hell t1_jahbwpz wrote
From the data there is a correlation between country's wealth and gender pay gap.
Ok_Acanthisitta5799 OP t1_jahelqd wrote
It's not the case, the graph is ordered by %gap. Ethiopia has the highest %gap.
capybara_from_hell t1_jahkn5z wrote
That's true, but I'm talking in terms of absolute values.
Also, most rich countries in the dataset are in the upper half of the figure, thus there is some correlation even in percentage terms.
[deleted] t1_jahf4hj wrote
[removed]
staunch_democrip t1_jahfzqb wrote
the developed countries seem mostly to have the largest pay gaps
[deleted] t1_jahgxv0 wrote
Sort countries and give us relative gaps
IAMCHEESE24 t1_jahj3ce wrote
Everyone is talking about genderpaygap. But noone talks about the country paygap.
[deleted] t1_jahwl6b wrote
[removed]
Rude-Palpitation2245 t1_jaib5ml wrote
It would be interesting to see the same data expressed in %
[deleted] t1_jaikyyu wrote
It is very nice to visualize this data using dumbell chart but this chart is not giving insight into exact story. For example, in Turkey, my country 1 dollar is approx.20 dolars. So,it is not eficient way to describe gap with dollar. There is more envy amount of gap in reality
Ok_Access_6702 t1_jaj7i1k wrote
I would be interested in seeing this data presented as a percentage difference instead of absolute difference. Why don't you redo it?
Ramu98 t1_jakr9tf wrote
Showing %difference is a better comparison rather than usual absolute figures in this case.
Mrs_Doutbfire t1_jahfxib wrote
Useless unless you compare the same jobs.
mvp4pres2020 t1_jalv3l8 wrote
This doesn’t include by job type or tenure, two very important factors to leave out if you want to make a political point and not a factual point
Ok_Acanthisitta5799 OP t1_jah91tc wrote
Leaving geographies with sparse data (lower representation across sectors). Made from International labour organization data using Datawrapper.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahbce5 wrote
ITT: Guys claiming the gender pay gap doesn’t exist and then describing exactly what the gender pay gap is and how it exists in the exact form they’re denying
Kingkyle18 t1_jal4bsr wrote
Way to let reality fly right over your head…..no one is denying that women as a whole, on average, make less than men, on average. But if you look into it, using critical thinking and variables….you see there is no pay gap for the same jobs, or even it’s educated/ unmarried women with no kids making the most. But then again, that would take critical thinking….
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jalbakc wrote
You seem to be like a lot of others here who are confused by what gender pay gap means.
You just described what it is.
Kingkyle18 t1_jalcm0d wrote
Nope not confused at all….typically when people reference the “pay gap” they are insinuating that women get paid less than men for the exact same job (which would lead to companies hiring only women). They are also insinuating that it stems from sexism and/or bigotry towards women….that is also false.
Literally no one ever has denied the pay gap of lump averages by gender….the question is why
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jaljhbg wrote
That’s not what it means or what people who say it are talking about.
It might be what you’ve wrongly thought they mean, but that’s all on you and Dr Peterson
Kingkyle18 t1_jam5kku wrote
I honestly can’t tell if you’re trolling, ignorant…., an idiot…..or all the above.
https://time.com/4290427/hillary-clinton-equal-pay-day/?amp=true
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2014/04/08/obama-on-gender-pay-gap-its-not-a-myth-its-math.html
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jam5tri wrote
You didn’t even read the first few pars of the first link, did you?
Kingkyle18 t1_janiafx wrote
Which one I sent multiple showing that people are saying women get paid less for doing the same as a man…..what are you missing here?
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jao57yo wrote
None of them say that.
They all contain the same explanation I’ve given you multiple times and none support you at all.
Kingkyle18 t1_jaoksvp wrote
“The wage gap persists when comparing women to men across similar education level, occupation, income and race.”
“Hillary Clinton called for stricter transparency laws to ensure women and men are paid equally for the same jobs”
“Democrats cite data that has found that the real median earnings of men and women who work full-time and year-round for the same amount of time”
I know reading is hard so I took quotes from these sources that explicitly say it, or imply it.
Do better.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jaol2iu wrote
> “The wage gap persists when comparing women to men across similar education level, occupation, income and race.”
Jesus Christ, dude.
You’re out of your depth in the shallow end
Kingkyle18 t1_jaoqqsc wrote
I don’t think you even know what you’re trying to argue
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jaorkr6 wrote
Holy shit, the irony might be too much now
Kingkyle18 t1_jaoxo8b wrote
Lol you claimed no one says “women are paid less for working the same job as men” I said people and leaders say it all the time….then I cited examples of people and politicians saying it…..you’ve provided nothing but a bunch jargon and clearly showing your lack of understanding
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jaoxuy1 wrote
Your quote literally describes the pay gap exactly as I did.
Have you read any of this or are you just in full rage mode?
> > “The wage gap persists when comparing women to men across similar education level, occupation, income and race.”
Your quote from you link, mate. Clear as day. Says the same in all your other links too - the same thing I told you too
Just admit you didn’t know what gender pay gap means - not does Peterson or Tate or any of your other pet charlatans
Kingkyle18 t1_jaoyagm wrote
My quote literally says it like I did so you obviously agree with my original post….good to know…..sorry you can’t properly explain your perspective
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jaoysem wrote
> “The wage gap persists when comparing women to men across similar education level, occupation, income and race.”
Did you actually read this?
Kingkyle18 t1_jap3zw4 wrote
Yes, so now you agree they say this? Then I’ll cite the countless economic papers that disprove that statement…..to remind you, your point was that no one says that women and men are paid differently for the same job…..now I’ve shown you people do say that (even though that is wrong)
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jap4e61 wrote
Just admit that neither you or Jordan Peterson has the first idea what you’re talking about here and learn from your mistake.
You haven’t found a single thing that supports your position because you have completely failed to understand what gender pay gap means.
That’s fine. You can always learn. But now that you’ve been told and read at least four articles that have also explained it to you, your continued ignorance is clearly wilful.
This isn’t a matter of opinion. You are stone cold wrong and every single thing you’ve posted shows it.
Kingkyle18 t1_jap6f6r wrote
Eh you can’t try to explain basic economics to stupid people….I tried…..there is no sexist pay gap where women make less because they are women…..but keep listening psychology majors tell you about the economy.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/27/young-women-earning-more-men
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/02/1090466033/gender-pay-gap-women-earn
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220415-why-young-women-earn-more-than-men-in-some-us-cities
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2023/03/01/gender-pay-gap-facts/
Sheep will be sheep though as they say
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jap7cxn wrote
> And although the gap may have been narrowed in many U.S. cities, nationally there is still a ways to go.
> The Institute for Women's Policy Research says that women who work full-time jobs in the U.S. are paid 83 cents on the dollar when compared with men.
And once again, your own sources immediately disagree with you
Kingkyle18 t1_jap9nzl wrote
There you Again quoting the stat that doesn’t take into account the same job…..only someone with a specific biased would knowingly exclude stats that go against their narrative…..just admit the pay gap is a fraud and not real
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_japa7xb wrote
That’s because when people discuss gender pay gap they’re not talking about the same job.
The fact you’re too ideologicallly biased to understand it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Kingkyle18 t1_japc0e6 wrote
When people talk about the pay gap…..they imply it’s because of sexism….it’s not.
I love how you’ve literally changed your original point though….
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_japcu7g wrote
My point remains that you have no idea what gender pay gap means so the rest of your ranting is irrelevant
Kingkyle18 t1_japhbgp wrote
I’ve just explained what gender gap is….a myth. No amount of sources or explaining will get that through your head
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_japhsk5 wrote
I get it. You’re too dumb to understand what everyone else is talking about so you made up your own definition and decided it’s fake.
Very clever.
Supertho t1_jaha1iw wrote
Gender pay gap is a myth in the USA. A woman with the same credentials as a man typically gets paid more to do the same job. They claim there's a pay gap because construction workers and hard laborers have higher pay on average and it's dominated by men because most women don't want to /can't do the work.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahb2eo wrote
Congratulations. You just described exactly what everyone means when they say “gender pay gap”.
What you just said, that’s what the gender pay gap is. So…. Not really a myth, eh?
bromazepam_ t1_jahdzgu wrote
Then what's the problem with the gender pay gap? What the person described is perfectly normal and fair
Edit: except the part where women get paid more than men for the same work but that's not "what everyone means" as you've said
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahe720 wrote
The undervaluing of professions dominated by women that are critical to society has knock on effects.
Paxisstinkt t1_jahdag3 wrote
Then we need more women in construction jobs. And women should get less children.
Maybe they don't want that and the statistics show that. So how about making a statistic about certain jobs? Men die earlier, also not shown in the graph
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahdiqp wrote
Perhaps we need to value nurses and teachers, and many other female dominated professions, more highly.
I worry moving all the teachers and nurses into trades will have some knock on effects that might not be so great for the economy in the long run.
Paxisstinkt t1_jaheokh wrote
Yes obv. Doesn't change the fact that women chose these jobs by themselves. It's peak femininism, everyone can study what he or she wants.
Edit: If you edit your post substantially please show it.
-So you want to tell women what they should work?
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahetnn wrote
I don’t see how that relates to this.
Paxisstinkt t1_jaholah wrote
If you don't like communism then there is a market price for your work. The market pays for work that was clasically done by men more.
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jahp3i1 wrote
Indeed. And, believe it or not, there are quite a few people who are not entirely convinced that that is the optimal situation for society or the economy, especially given the extremely high non-monetary value of these jobs.
Paxisstinkt t1_jaht4m9 wrote
True but we live in a (capitalistic) society that tries to fit everything in it. And how do you solve it?
Ian_ronald_maiden t1_jajej6j wrote
I don’t know.
But it exists
freedom7-4-1776 t1_jahelxh wrote
This doesnt make sence. Why are there only two genders? Also gender is a made up term why put this into an arbitrary category.
Theepot80 t1_jaha8oa wrote
I can’t make sense of the order of countries