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Boonzies t1_jb72p1c wrote

Nicely done... And yes it's weird as fuck out there. I think the ATS systems are flooded amd having a conniption.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb739nf wrote

Thanks. Yes, I agree the ATS systems are flooded. But I have heard from several recruiters that there are other influences causing havoc with things. The economy, politics, and demographics have come up a number of times in candid conversation.


Boonzies t1_jb73wzn wrote

Then there is agesism and fear. I've been told more than once, "I'm afraid you'll take my job."


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb7486u wrote

I encountered this once, but it was a while ago. And usually this comes up as an issue after an interview. These days, I'm having a tough enough time just getting initial interviews.


Boonzies t1_jb76fpl wrote

You are not alone and most likely it's not you, it's them. The whole recruiting business is utterly fucked up. I've even had initial screening interviews by "Sr. Tech. Recruiters" that just two years earlier were working at the Gap folding shirts and pants. Sometimes it's intolerable and infuriating. Hang in there.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb76maa wrote

Thanks. I need to hear this. And I've seen the same thing. So many recruiters with next to no experience.


smart_patch_v1 t1_jb87byg wrote

Can you share your CV? We've hired quite a few senior BI/BAs recently (not anymore though due to hiring freeze which was decided due to the expected recession) can see if there are any red flags I'd identify.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb89rwa wrote

That's difficult to do and remain anonymous. I'd love to , but I'm not sure how to go about it.


smart_patch_v1 t1_jb9x4lr wrote

You could take your name and the companies you worked for out, and if you share directly I won't share elsewhere, but if you feel uncomfortable no worries.


elementofpee t1_jb9q0ar wrote

Wonder if there’s a residual effect from all the corporate layoffs that have gutted the recruiting departments?

You’re right. It’s getting weird/tough out there even for industry vets.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jbad4qu wrote

It's definitely possible. I was seeing layoffs starting in earnest back in 2019.


maggmaster t1_jb7cbxo wrote

Your resume is getting rejected by the pre screening AI. You need a new version.


thatrussiangirl t1_jb83smk wrote

As someone who has applied to 74 jobs in the past two months, can you say more about this? I’ve changed my resume once and have 3-5 cover letters. Feeling bleak.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb8hq73 wrote

So you're seeing what I'm seeing. Weird, isn't it? I don't know what else to say about it. And ya, it's bleak.

Makes me want to go start a motorcycle shop.


thatrussiangirl t1_jb98tgc wrote

Indeed. Been having fantasies of starting my own bookstore but need that sweet upfront capital…


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jbae3hv wrote

A good buddy of mine (who knows a lot about these things) has always told me: Never use your own money. Use the Bank's money. I mean, I guess you have to have a little money of your own.

Why not start with an online bookstore? If you specialize in hard to find books that would be really super cool. And it would require much less overhead. I say start as a side hobby and see what happens. I've got some ideas of my own I'll be exploring soon.


maggmaster t1_jcbojck wrote

Sorry I didn’t see this. Typically the automatic screeners are looking for particular words for the position, sometimes you can get them right out of the job posting. Sometimes it takes some googling to figure out the key words for the industry.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb7cip1 wrote

That's possible. But I've revved it a couple of times. Any tips on this?


CarbonReflections t1_jb8bsb7 wrote

Do you run the job listings through a keyword identifier and then alter your resume to use those keywords? That should get you through the screening software.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb8hkwx wrote

Given my experience, my resume actually contains a lot of keywords. That said, no I don't alter my resume for the job listings. I could try it I guess.

But you know, we shouldn't NEED to do that.


indabl t1_jb8gppc wrote

jam in a bunch of keywords in the blank spaces and then make them white


[deleted] t1_jb97g2a wrote

people look for that you know, and your resume gets trashed for it.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb8hhlg wrote

Hah! I totally could do that. But something tells me you're joking...


indabl t1_jb8hogp wrote

I am but in theory it’ll prob beat the ai. too scared to try it myself tho lol


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb8hux0 wrote

Hmm. I could always spin up an alternate identity and try it. Seems like a lot of trouble though. I'll noodle on it.


PrincessCyanidePhx t1_jb71i1j wrote

Can you explain why it's getting weird? Seems like that status has been there for all of us. I'm curious since I'm sort of looking for a new job.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb720el wrote

I used to get responses much more quickly and had no problems getting interviews. Now, even for someone with my experience, it's taking a lot longer and I'm seeing many more of my applications getting ignored. Finally, to have two good companies shut me down after hiring me, both stating it was due to the bad economy, and both in quick succession, is something I've not seen before.


PrincessCyanidePhx t1_jb738cf wrote

Do you have anything in your background check that may be coming up but you're unaware of it? In AZ, if you were ever involved in in anything and Phoenix PD marks you "of interest", even when they haven't told you. That then goes on your background check. I had a friend getting turned down for a lot of jobs. She reviewed her background and Phoenix PD had her information there. She was a witness for a friend. She was able to fight ot but it blows me over that some law org can just add your name to a crime and don't have to tell you and may never charge you.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb73wln wrote

Nope. Clean as a (clean) whistle. In fact, for the most recent go-around (the one which withdrew the offer due to the poor economy), I passed the background check without a single issue. This was confirmed by their HR. I guess they could have been lying, but I've never had a background issue before (and it didn't seem like they were lying).


PrincessCyanidePhx t1_jb74a18 wrote

You may want to pull one for yourself to confirm.

Don't forget to look for remote jobs in addition to local jobs


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb753lu wrote

Not a bad idea. How do I pull a background check?

Also, ya, been applying to remote positions. All three jobs in the last two years have been remote.


PrincessCyanidePhx t1_jb75anf wrote

I'm sure there are a few services to get one. Look for one that is reputable and has good reviews.


paceminterris t1_jb83jqb wrote

This is the least helpful followup comment ever. If you answer is "I don't know, choose a good one," why not save us all the time and not type anything at all?


PrincessCyanidePhx t1_jb8cymd wrote

So you're doubling down on least helpful? Dude said he is a data analyst, he can find his way around Google.


prove_this t1_jb8saay wrote

Brutal OP.

I have a very similar experience, currently looking.

I put most of my issue down to over hr'ing the hiring process. Too many rounds, too much obsession with perfect skill fit over hiring talented tech record. It's turning into Gattaca.

Just make sure you save a lot when you are working.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jbai1lq wrote

Ya I agree about the over-HR'ing of things (everything in general). And sadly it's just just skills we're being measured on these days (just like Gattaca).

Save as much as you can, invest, and have a side-hustle (even if it's a small one). Maintain a good circle of friends and acquaintances. Spay and neuter your pets. [Other good advice.]

But yea, this blows.


[deleted] t1_jb74qr2 wrote



eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb75ba8 wrote

I don't think so. I'm middle-aged (not young, not old) and I've been applying to multiple levels of jobs for which I'm qualified (director, manager, lead, and IC/analyst). The last three jobs I've had have been manager and lead positions.


Boonzies t1_jb77782 wrote

A quick reminder... In tech hubs you age out at 45. At 55 you're fucked for the most part.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb77l95 wrote

Not there just yet. And I keep my online resumes to a short 10-years of experience. So without doing some background check on me before even contacting me, I'm not sure how they could know my age anyway.


[deleted] t1_jb78akl wrote



eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb78w9t wrote


Well, I keep my graduation date off of my profiles for just this reason.

And add to that I don't show up in Google very well at all. People could find my LinkedIn profile, not really nothing else.

I don't think it's an age thing.


yarli t1_jb7qr4k wrote

>. In tech hubs you age out at 45. At 55 you're fucked for the most part.

Is this for IC Jobs or for any kind of job in the tech industry ( Managers / Leads etc)


Boonzies t1_jb8075c wrote

Any engineering role; any product role; any PM PgM, PFM roles, basically anything where you touch/see/smell code.

Now sales jobs, biz dev jobs, account management jobs are open to slightly older. But not too old.

Finally, there are always exceptions to the rule.


Clemario t1_jb8z6ol wrote

What’s the story of the company with the “abuse” issue?


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jbahns8 wrote

That's a really big company. Like world-wide super famous company. Looks great on the resume.

They're all about employees self-learning. Now the interesting thing is they all say "Oh please reach out if you have questions and we're happy to get with you to go through things." And, as the technology they're pushing on customers is at best half-baked, everybody has lots of questions. So I reached out. Twice. Only twice. And then I got the feedback that I was asking too much. So that was weird.

The second instance was when we were working with a major defense industry contractor, and the team was absolutely failing to impress the client. Literally in desperation, the director of our team asked me (as a Hail Mary) if I had any good ideas about what we could put in front of them. Now, keep in mind, the client had said the words "You guys keep pushing this flashy stuff in front of us and you're not listening to our business needs. We're pretty much done with you." Up to that point, I'd stayed a little in the background and tried not to make waves, just supporting the leaders with what they wanted to put out. But I did have an idea. It was a little unconventional, but I thought it would be something the client needed. So I built it.

My team leadership (all of them) hated it. And they openly derided me in several meetings, saying my tool didn't look like anything they were producing. (They were mostly referring to my tool sitting on a primarily white background and having low variability in the appearance of the analytics. I did this because I'd worked with people like the client before and I know they appreciate a no-bullshit approach to things.) Anyway, I got all kinds of disrespectful shit about it. And the team leadership, having nothing else to put forward (having utterly struck out with all they're fancy colorful bullshit), put it in front of the client.

The client loved it. They were nuts about it. The department we showed it to immediately started showing the tool to other departments. I mean, they were really impressed. They wanted to meet me, and to know how I built the tool and what calculations I'd used. Again, it was unconventional, but not terribly complicated - very no-bullshit. That single interaction with my tool save the entire account. I'm not even exaggerating. The client had already fired two of our team leads over the course of three months. Things had been going bad. And then, suddenly, the $15M contract was all back on the table and things were progressing.

Did I get any thanks or recognition for that? Nope. The comments were that it appeared I didn't understand my company's vision.

The third part was with a different client. To make a long story short, in several meetings, in front of project management, I asked the client "So you want me to build this? Exactly this?", referring to a tool which had been built in another system. Several times, the client responded with "Yes, build exactly that."

Knowing this sort of thing is a portent of problems, I spoke privately with the project manager to make sure he understood what was going on. I even said that if things go bad, I didn't want to be a scapegoat. He was all cool with it.

So, I built exactly that.

Later in the project I went to show the client the progress, and they (the very same people who said 'build exactly that') said "What's this? This is nothing like what we want." Needless to say I was shocked. And I found out that before I'd even finished my presentation, the project manager was already bus-chucking me to senior management. At the time I didn't know he'd written emails and after the presentation asked him if shit was hitting the fan. Project Manager totally assured me things were fine.

Yeah. Not fine.

Senior management decided to tear me up, and absolutely wouldn't hear anything I had to say. I tried to show them emails supporting me and they refused to look. I really didn't understand all the hate.

Later I found out the project manager was covering his ass and distracting from some of his own poor management. Whatever. I didn't get fired, but the open derision and disrespect was like nothing I'd ever seen.

It likely doesn't sound as bad here as it really was. They treated me horribly. Fuck those guys.


CrisisCake t1_jb9pwc6 wrote

Curious about this too. What constitutes "abuse" these days when the market is this weird?


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb71c2o wrote

Used the following tools to create this visualization of my own data from the last 2 years:



Paterwin t1_jb7adrz wrote

I interviewed recently for a vCIO role at an MSP. The first interview, the job title was vCIO. The second interview, they called it senior consultant (not that weird, but worth noting) the third interview it was called an entry level consultant role (something is definitely amiss, but I'm invested now so interested to see what happens) and then the 4th interview I am finally told the actual position is for Technical Account Management. Essentially sales, little to no consulting. They offered me a job at an abysmal rate and I declined.

Just wanted to share that, since I noticed you had several interviews where the job and JD you applied to ended up being two completely different things.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb7b0jd wrote

I've had this happen twice - once a while back in a job I actually took. They told me they were hiring me as a marketing manager. Then once hired said, well, it's going to be account executive. I was a little put off, but they said they'd give me a whole county to myself. I thought that might be okay. Go through the two-week (almost utterly useless) orientation and report in to the office where they tell me I'd only get half the county.

Turns out the half of the county I got was already over-saturated and every single customer or potential customer I contacted over 6 months said they hated the company I was working for. Every single one. It was unbelievable.

Actually, I've often thought of writing the stories of my employment. I have quite a few doozies.


Paterwin t1_jb7botk wrote

You should! People are doing it on LinkedIn and making small fortunes lmao. And sounds like you have marketing chops! 😂


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jb7cegj wrote

Making fortunes? On LinkedIn? I mean, I live in a cave and all, but you'd think I'd have seen this. Got a link?


riverland t1_jb97dav wrote

I am looking for a new mid/senior position since January 1st.

Over 300 applications. Ghosted on 50% and declined without follow-up on 40%. Never had such a bad response rate.

After interviews I look for current workers on LinkedIn to chat with and (until now) every offer I got was 20% lower than theirs — and 3-4 people that are new at the company told that their offer was already 10-15% lower than someone that was already there when they arrived.

Fortunately for my pocket I am still employed, but I can’t say the same for my sanity.

Good luck!


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jbaefnm wrote

I have also seen salaries steeply declining. And ultimately it's not going to serve the hiring companies well. They'll save a little on the front end but they're either not going to get quality people or they're going to get people who aren't particularly enthusiastic to be there. Neither is good.

Keep your data and please publish it. As things tighten up, we all need to know the realities of what we're dealing with.


SimplySerenity t1_jbbwn3g wrote

You directly ask employees for their salary? That’s pretty bold. You do know there a plenty of websites with those, right?


riverland t1_jbczle7 wrote

Not required to ask. By going first and telling what offer I got, usually the other side replies with their salary.

These website works for large companies. For startups and medium size they are useless — but, even if they work, I would probably get outdated information, since this movement to lower salaries is pretty recent.


Jorycle t1_jb93kd4 wrote

In my experience, it seems like companies are trying to do a wage reset after the COVID era made wages livable. Telling anyone my current salary is a good way to get ghosted fast, but just looking at my resume gives an idea that my expected salary is probably going to be on the higher end.

I've also noticed that the jobs in my salary filter have progressively shifted from "senior position" to "CTO/team lead" for the same pay over the last 6-8 months.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jbaek4v wrote

Yep, I've also noticed a steep decline in salaries recently. It's not going to serve the hiring companies well.


tristanjones t1_jb9wdqe wrote

Companies are definitely tightening the belt strap as they expect the economy to slow down, and at the least as money becomes more expensive so they need to manage their debts and investments better. Lots of analytics work is sadly not considered as fundamental to core operations and so often a place that feels this pain more.

In the latest reorg I had the option of moving to a fancy new AI/ML team or a very boring data tagging and implementation team. I took the latter knowing full well it was seen as a critical requirement, where the AI/ML analytics insights team is more of a 'Nice to Have'. I'm pretty confident that there will be a new series of layoffs at my company end of spring early summer, and I would not be surprised if I survive them entirely based on what team I chose.

That being said, it can also get harder as you advance in your career, there are less and less overall positions as you move up to more senior roles. The industry is still fairly young all things considered but we do have a much larger generation of experienced individuals in the field than we did even just 5-10 years ago.


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jbad0p7 wrote

I agree on most points. AI and ML are definitely considered "nice to have". The funny thing is if a company has a reasonably good core analytics implementation, they're more able to see problems coming and adjust for things in advance. Sadly, most companies don't have good core analytics and so aren't well-armed against the ridiculousness of modern life.


tristanjones t1_jbavzgo wrote

I definitely wish companies did a better job of prioritizing and investing in their ability to Learn using analytics but the few companies that have made a point to do that are the same ones doing layoffs right now. Sooo..


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jbb70ay wrote

I've worked for two major analytics software companies and I can for sure say they don't drink their own Kool-Aid when it comes to have a sound Analytics practice. I have also found most analytics professionals (and those leading them) a bit short-sighted and very siloed in their own data. I wish companies in general did a better job of understanding just what and how much they can see with a good Analytics practice. Unfortunately I usually see a bunch of office politics playing havoc with what and how the data should be presented with very little regard to what actually is.


Firekey_ t1_jb9c83b wrote

How do you keep track of all the places you apply to?


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jbadugg wrote

Honestly, I just use a Google sheet (spreadsheet). Columns are: Date, Job Title, Company, Job Level, Website Applied Through, Expected Response Date (calculated based on an average response time which is about 2 weeks), Initial Response Date, and then multiple columns for date and description of each interaction.

I'm sure there are automated tools for this kind of thing, but I prefer the manual method as I can control and manipulate the data more. I have other columns for counting being turned down, counting response types and counting interview types.

It might sound more complex than it is.


willienwaylon11 t1_jbadwvk wrote

What program do you use to make the flow chart ?


eatstoothpicks OP t1_jbaiafe wrote

Super easy. Really like this tool. Very no-bullshit.