Submitted by giteam t3_11lsrt1 in dataisbeautiful
Comments
[deleted] t1_jbdxtb8 wrote
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Deus_Novi5 t1_jbe0g8u wrote
Whats data center?
lo_fi_ho t1_jbe0opd wrote
NVIDIA pays zero tax? TIL
giteam OP t1_jbe19xd wrote
NVIDIA provides hardware and software solutions to businesses that need high-power computing for things like rendering, data analytics, AI training etc.
Deus_Novi5 t1_jbe1c3s wrote
Ah so like customer support
The_Cultured_Freak t1_jbe1heh wrote
Apparently you need specialized hardware(and software) to store large chunks of data which should be easily accessible.
mev_one t1_jbe35pg wrote
What is the definition of "cost of revenue "?
[deleted] t1_jbe3lqm wrote
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Nexustar t1_jbe466x wrote
It's the "real" bit of the costs involved in delivering product. Materials, manufacturing & distribution. But I think it's a bit flexible (can differ company to company) - but in essence should involve costs that directly mirror production quantity.
FormerKarmaKing t1_jbe49it wrote
Data center is a generic term for renting out the hardware needed to run services on the internet. Amazon’s AWS is the largest provider in the world with Microsoft and Google behind them. Competing against companies like those is obviously very hard.
NVIDIA, however, has a massive advantage when it comes to hosting software that requires a lot of GPUs. This includes graphics programs but also AI software.
mev_one t1_jbe4j24 wrote
Ok. I understand. At my company (car parts) it would be "direct cost". Labor, production expenses, and materials.
Nathanondorf t1_jbe4rsv wrote
I bought a 1070 Ti around 6 months after the 20 series came out. I paid roughly $250 $500* at that time. Today the 3070 Ti would be the equivalent. I don’t know if the 40 series has been out for 6 months, but one 3070 Ti is currently going for about $700, and I’m supposed to believe these prices are “normal”? I guess those prices aren’t too far off, considering inflation. Still higher than ideal though.
Edit: I looked up my receipt for said purchase of 1070 Ti in 2018. Looks like I actually paid around $500. I thought I purchased two cards for that price, but I guess my wife bought her own and I remembered wrong.
Daniferd t1_jbe537z wrote
I saw new 3080s being on sale for $700 back in November. Some of them had Newegg gift cards in the tune of like $150 on top.
MichaelMJTH t1_jbe5lla wrote
The word ‘normal’ definitely deserves to be in quotation marks. Graphics card prices are in a weird spot. Manufacturing bottleneck have now loosened post the covid era electronics supply shortage. And the crypto mining crash has lead to demand decreasing dramatically, right as Nvidia had stock ready for the cards. So price deflation has happened, but it’s most noticeable mainly in the resellers/ 2nd hand markets where used stock is flooding.
However, Nvidia and their competitor AMD has on the other hand increased the prices for each tier of its latest generation flagship GPUs. This has led to a lack of the same enthusiasm for the latest GPU launch when compared to the previous generation launch in 2020. Couple that with the flood of prior generation used cards on the market, new graphics card sales in units and revenue were down year on year in 2022.
ExHax t1_jbe6704 wrote
Negative tax.
EVOOhhYeah t1_jbe6csh wrote
Not only that, but received $200 million in tax benefits for all that R&D spend. Tax breaks for R&D make sense for smaller orgs, but not at this scale. NVIDIA would continue to innovate at this scale without the tax breaks to maintain their market edge.
[deleted] t1_jbe7xi8 wrote
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[deleted] t1_jbe88aw wrote
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HopefullyFunny69 t1_jbe8a5p wrote
Why the fuck does Nvidia not pay taxes?
lo_fi_ho t1_jbe9o45 wrote
Why they do not pay tax?
gonsalu t1_jbebp5d wrote
Gunra t1_jbec7ac wrote
Zero $ in taxes and getting money for R&D? It must be sick to live outside of the system.
the_fart_king_farts t1_jbeca4x wrote
Wait till you hear about how Ireland uses this to fuck over every other country in the EU.
dororor t1_jbece40 wrote
R&D is for future of the company plus more tax breaks
georgewesker97 t1_jbeczc4 wrote
Prices are definitely not normal, in fact, NVIDIA is trying to maintain those cryptoboom prices. Id wagger that the flat revenue is because people are having none of that.
Wind_14 t1_jbeda7j wrote
It's more like special server that is not only used to store stuff but also to do heavy-work jobs like AI, simulation (especially near real-life one) rendering animation etc.
Big_Knife_SK t1_jbeffso wrote
I don't know what the program is called in other countries but in Canada it's called SR&ED. Basically you can claim back up to 70% of the expenses you paid into R&D, including salary.
scalpingsnake t1_jbeggan wrote
So they can make all the money
[deleted] t1_jbeheta wrote
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Mangalorien t1_jbelhln wrote
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cost-of-revenue.asp
TLDR: the cost of producing and delivering a product to customers, excluding indirect costs such as marketing and R&D.
Mangalorien t1_jbem0an wrote
They likely have good tax managers, tax specialists, tax advisors and tax consultants. Keep in mind that hey will still be paying other taxes like payroll taxes, property taxes and similar.
goldcakes t1_jbemuq9 wrote
Because semiconductors are a national security matter.
Fleinsuppe t1_jbenony wrote
so drug companies also get these huge tax breaks? wtf are we overpaying them for then?
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbernzc wrote
That’s their income tax expense, which isn’t the same thing as the tax they pay. Judging from their 10-K, they did pay tax at around a 50% tax rate for 2022
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbes8mq wrote
That’s not true at all. The reason their rate is low is due to R&D getting capitalized this year, which increases the amount of FDII they pay.
If you look at the actual tax they paid this year, it’s around $2 billion, or a 50% tax rate
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbesb7r wrote
The tax they paid in 2022 was about 50% of their pre-tax profit
this_sort_of_thing t1_jbesen9 wrote
And then be dead in a few years because your product and services lineup is stagnant and your competitors are running rings around you.
It takes money to make money, and especially for high technology companies like nVidia
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbesfa9 wrote
Go look at their 10-K, they paid around $2 billion, or a 50% tax rate. The reason their income tax expense is negative is due to R&D getting capitalized this year, so they get a large deferred foreign benefit, but that doesn’t reduce the actual tax they owe
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbesgvv wrote
Nvidia’s situation has nothing to do with Ireland though
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbesk70 wrote
>Zero $ in taxes
They paid around $2 billion
si3rra_7 t1_jbeu07k wrote
yep. if china wakes up cranky and "special military operations" Taiwan, let's just say that your next Iphone is gonna be delayed
the_fart_king_farts t1_jbeu641 wrote
I guess; every company does this. My point was that it isn't only them doing horrible things.
tjwenger t1_jbevht7 wrote
What is the name of this graph/chart type/visualization?
Ayemann t1_jbexv6v wrote
haha right, 4.4b in profits, meh, tax credit.
[deleted] t1_jbey3b5 wrote
The Dutch too
bostonjames6 t1_jbezj0j wrote
R&D credits would be my guess.
[deleted] t1_jbf10vt wrote
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raw-shucked-oysters t1_jbf3e4b wrote
Sankey diagram
gusofk t1_jbf3yn6 wrote
Where is that indicated on the graphic? It sure looks like they got a net tax benefit of $200 million
Amekaze t1_jbf4z47 wrote
Because taxes are for poor people.
abusedporpoise t1_jbf54bj wrote
Depends what you mean by equivalent. The equivalent hardware performance would roughly be a 3050Ti
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nope_nic_tesla t1_jbf9zf8 wrote
It's not, it's in their actual financial filings which one should look at before making erroneous conclusions from an infographic.
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbfaw75 wrote
It’s in their 10-K. Their total tax expense is a benefit of $200M, but their current tax expense is $200B. It’s just that their deferred tax expense is a benefit of $202B
[deleted] t1_jbfc2ox wrote
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garry4321 t1_jbfddt0 wrote
What I see is that if all of us gamers banded together and boycotted their proce gouging, we could make them either lower their prices or face a 4+ billion dollar loss.
Free-Consequence-164 t1_jbfhnmx wrote
Nvidia summoning 200 million dollars in tax benefits
hawklost t1_jbfht33 wrote
Because we all know people on Reddit never make mistakes and/or intentionally misleading graphs /s
bumblyburg t1_jbfhvft wrote
Why am I not seeing depreciation & amortization costs?
nope_nic_tesla t1_jbfiszl wrote
According to their 10-K filing they owe over $2 billion in deferred income taxes.
asclepiannoble t1_jbfm4xd wrote
Inflation-adjusted and tier-matched, GPU prices are definitely not normal :) But I suppose it's true that crypto-driven price inflation at least is no longer the concern now.
Now, it looks more like NVIDIA itself is adjusting the prices to match those at some points of 2021.
magnora7 t1_jbfnkiv wrote
I think it's funny how the salaries of everyone but the owners is seen as a fixed asset to be minimized, part of the expense, but the "net profit" is only enjoyed by those at the top of the company. As if human beings who aren't management are a tool like a lathe or a computer that you just buy.
It honestly cracks me up how normalized this is, and how basically no one questions it.
danielv123 t1_jbfov7c wrote
Basically, the part of you expenses that would double if you sold twice as many.
danielv123 t1_jbfp20f wrote
They aren't in Canada.
danielv123 t1_jbfpef3 wrote
Yep. And you might argue that 70 makes it the same skew, but you could also argue that they just shifted their lineup a step upwards with 70 series replacing 80 series.
danielv123 t1_jbfqexn wrote
No, like licenses, A100 and H100 cards. H100 is 33k pre tax, each.
They sell them in pre built machines with 8x H100, 8Tbps bidirectional networking, 112 cores, 30TB of nvme storage and 2TB memory. That is 640gb VRAM per machine.
Oh, and they are linked together. They sell hundreds of these machines at a time.
markhc t1_jbfs8u8 wrote
I think the data center on this chart refers to the sales of GPU to big data centers like those you mentioned.
Or, in other words, the revenue from sales of their data-center cards like A100, V100, etc.
girl_mourns_bro t1_jbfuc4e wrote
what does nvidia provide for automotive industry? 900 million $ is a lot of money...
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbfvewq wrote
It’s included in SG&A
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbfvleg wrote
That’s their second biggest adjustment right after foreign income tax adjustments
Zenged_ t1_jbfxld4 wrote
So the government pays Nvidia taxes?
bumblyburg t1_jbfzwch wrote
Got it. Is “SG&A” a category that typically includes depreciation/amortization?
(I can tell I didn’t pay proper attention in my accounting class)
Torontogamer t1_jbfzwct wrote
Lets just say your next... most everything is going to be delayed...
FormerKarmaKing t1_jbg0a4d wrote
Yeah, you’re probably right in terms of breaking out the revenue. The software services likely roll up under OEM & Other because they’re so tiny at this point.
Torontogamer t1_jbg0f5a wrote
same reason as most places, because that's what they think you'll pay for it ...
conceptually it makes sense to promote drug development, and most development, but in practice it's very hard to implement anything 'fairly' when they are billions of dollars at stake.
[deleted] t1_jbg0tmz wrote
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Fit-Plant-306 t1_jbg2qzv wrote
There are many charts like this on Genuine Impact’s app and are all similar. Corporations barely pay any tax. Good ol trickle down…
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbg3p5s wrote
This is the danger of looking at highly technical tax information and assuming it’s a simple read. If you dig into the 10-K for this company, they actually paid about 50% of their profit in tax this year. The discrepancy comes from a new R&D capitalization policy, which gives them a deferred tax benefit on their foreign derived intangible income. This benefit is only a small portion of the actual higher tax they’ll pay from this policy, but the US portion doesn’t impact effective tax rates
It’s wrong to say that corporations barely pay any tax, because income tax expense is a misleading metric that doesn’t relate to the tax a company pays
[deleted] t1_jbg3yat wrote
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ferikehun t1_jbg5cpm wrote
Like thats ever gonna happen :/
[deleted] t1_jbg9bm6 wrote
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A_Doormat t1_jbg9f7r wrote
They do, its just not shown in this particular graph.
rusself t1_jbghq5f wrote
Instead of paying taxes.. they actually get more paid.. this fucken bullshit gotta stop
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbghyqc wrote
That’s not the tax they pay. They paid around $2 billion for 2022
proactiveplatypus t1_jbgkequ wrote
It’s not going straight into the pocket of Jensen Huang.
The net profit would be paid out either by investing in the company (ie, hiring more or retaining existing talent), paying down debt, or paying dividends to the shareholders.
Nvidia pays a pretty paltry dividend, but those fixed salary employees you mentioned also receive stock as compensation, so they would see some of that profit.
vou_discordar t1_jbgnv5b wrote
I hate these graphs. You lose the relation between the parts. Beautiful but useless.
[deleted] t1_jbgre8x wrote
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MrCoolBiscoti t1_jbgsetj wrote
Thats 152,000 per employee
[deleted] t1_jbgsggj wrote
let's just say there's isn't gonna be a "next"
rito-pIz t1_jbgspg9 wrote
Am I reading that "tax" right?
ctaylor0128 t1_jbgtluy wrote
PRE-TAX: $4.2 billion…. NET after taxes: $4.4 billion
jep5680jep t1_jbgx6rq wrote
Can someone explain the difference between cost of revenue vs operating expenses?
lestat01 t1_jbgy7ga wrote
No, tax payers pay Nvidia.
Majestic-Target8219 t1_jbgziy9 wrote
Wish I got paid tax back if I earned 4 billion
Cakeking7878 t1_jbh3f62 wrote
Yeah here in the ol’ US of A, it’s Delaware, not Ireland
Cakeking7878 t1_jbh3tu5 wrote
Wtf. I keep hearing the whole point of capitalism “but they take risks when they invest, we can’t take away their profits. How will they innovate???”
Mean while they get tax breaks on this “risk”
Privatize profits, socialize the losses, bs is what it is
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbh46g2 wrote
Eh, it doesn’t really have to do with Delaware either, that’s mainly for legal reasons anyways
mrmalort69 t1_jbh5qpn wrote
4.4b net income means they could pay out $169,000 per employee assuming about 26,000 employees. For fucks sake capitalism is messed up.
mooseson t1_jbh5y4b wrote
$200million tax benefit must feel nice every year.
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbh61qq wrote
They didn’t get paid tax back, they paid about $2 billion of tax
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbh63t2 wrote
It includes deferred taxes too. Their actual tax for the year was $2 billion
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbh65b4 wrote
Neither of them pay Nvidia
Cakeking7878 t1_jbh9vjb wrote
If your not aware, Delaware is a tax haven. One address in deleware has a few hundred thousand odd companies are registered at it
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbhazs9 wrote
Most companies incorporate in Delaware for the ease of it and the legal protection, since they have a chancery court for corps
It can help tax-wise, but only with state taxes. And enough states have combined reporting laws at this point that the benefit is pretty thin anyways
In either case, Nvidia’s state taxes here are a very negligible portion of their tax expense
Obvious_Chapter2082 t1_jbhcn5q wrote
They actually paid around $2 billion of tax, they didn’t get a benefit
[deleted] t1_jbhdkmr wrote
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Zombery t1_jbhq0so wrote
The fact that their net income is higher than their pre-tax income is truly impressive
silenceisbetter1 t1_jbhr3jj wrote
Not only that, Executive pay especially in tech has increased every year for a decade on the % of compensation given in equity
There is some merit in my opinion to be willing as the CEO to bet your own earnings on the company and your ability to lead it, and then they profit when their employees do too because as you mentioned equity is almost a given in tech
jdd18 t1_jbhtt0l wrote
Section 174 Capitalization
Ericgzg t1_jbi0ozu wrote
Nvidia is a public company. Do you know what public company means?
[deleted] t1_jbi76vm wrote
I’m getting really tired of this visualization method
Delicious-Sandwich90 t1_jbi7mdg wrote
Which category includes capital expenses?
SBAWTA t1_jbijemq wrote
Anf 4070ti goes for $900, at least where I live.
[deleted] t1_jbiqcot wrote
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magnora7 t1_jbjigi0 wrote
That stockholders are a part of management, and my point still stands?
Ericgzg t1_jbjn9g3 wrote
Nobody in management even owns 1/4 of 1 percent of shares. Not even the founder. Go read a book or something yeah.
magnora7 t1_jbjnfoe wrote
My point is still true, that profit is kept largely by management and stockholders. It's literally the definition of the word.
[deleted] t1_jbk5is0 wrote
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Runfasterbitch t1_jbklbw2 wrote
Tax expense of $200B? Wow they’re fucked
Ericgzg t1_jbmvkgm wrote
The profit is kept by the shareholders and only the shareholders. I own nvidia. If you own any large mutual funds, you own nvidia too. I think you don’t understand the structure of public companies.
giteam OP t1_jbdxrev wrote
The price of graphics cards has now fallen from the super-inflated prices of 2021 to more 'normal' prices, and NVIDIA's FY22 revenue is actually flat from FY21 as a result
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