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noradorakara t1_jdi2ach wrote

Jeez...maybe try better labeling

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MarleyandtheWhalers t1_jdin0ij wrote

When the title is "NUMBER of Physicians per 1000" and the biggest NUMBER is the rank, it's objectively confusing

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hoffmanmclaunsky t1_jditonh wrote

Oh wow, I didn't even catch that. Makes this a pretty terrible visualization.

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Benu5 t1_jdklsik wrote

Fuck, I thought Niger was just nailing it for some reason, then read this.

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mormagils t1_jdkzx5b wrote

It took me way too long to figure that out. I was really going nuts that I was way worse at math than I thought. Then I realized. Really crappy labeling here.

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Vidofnir_KSP t1_jdkibot wrote

Right, damn South Sudan is providing some sweet health care

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Darryl_Lict t1_jdkyyz9 wrote

Yeah, this is stupid. I was suspicious of the numbers, and then I read your comment.

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Designing_Data t1_jdluhnx wrote

I didn't like it either so I took matters into my own hands and built a better version from from scratch in the last 90 minutes

Desktop friendly format

Edit to add that it's downloadable and contains all information needed to reproduce the data using Tableau and the world bank data

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RelativeDoughnut6967 t1_jdi1jxf wrote

Originally I thought this said 53 physicians per 1000 In the US and I was really not liking my odds in the future

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someguyonline00 t1_jdi5jjg wrote

How is 2.61 physicians better than 53, or did I misunderstand — genuinely curious

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RelativeDoughnut6967 t1_jdibu2j wrote

Its not better In general, but it makes it seem like the job market is decreasing/full

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BIGBUMPINFTW t1_jdivw5j wrote

Ok so you're referring to the job market as a potential future physician. That context would have been helpful.

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RelativeDoughnut6967 t1_jdiwtb1 wrote

Yeah sorry, I realize it wasn't clear enough

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Sahih t1_jdjpxrt wrote

Your comments were less confusing than the graph, but thanks for the clarification. Either way, best of luck!

... Does 'break a leg' help or hurt your chances?

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DunderLubbin t1_jdi98qb wrote

53rd place

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someguyonline00 t1_jdi9i2v wrote

Yeah, but they were concerned before they realized it was 53rd place, no? Not after?

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IronFFlol t1_jdijnkm wrote

Yes if there’s 53/1000, that’s wayyy too high. That probably means that that job market for doctors is extremely saturated.

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HappiHappiHappi t1_jdjvny7 wrote

Even at 53/1000 can still basically guarantee there'd be a shortage of GPs/family medicine drs. Too much work and not enough par compared to other specialities for most people, which is sad because it is the speciality that really is the most important and so many people could avoid seeing any other doctor if they received early, high quality primary care. For example my mother ended up in hospital for 4 days with a bladder infection because she couldn't get into the GP for 3 days before that so the infection had time to take hold.

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Derpazor1 t1_jdid39o wrote

Canada’s healthcare is in deep trouble right now

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OneLessFool t1_jdkbd1i wrote

It's insane because a little over 40 years ago we had over 6 doctors per 1000. But we collectively decided to vote in austerity lovers at the federal and provincial level like Mulroney and Chrétien. We stopped expanding the number of med school positions and residencies to match population growth. We stopped investing in public assets, stopped building public housing, sold off lucrative and beneficial public assets to "balance the budget" one random year every few years. The end result is a housing and healthcare system in rapid decline.

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DeathMetal007 t1_jdlsafk wrote

Why does the government control this? Do lawyers or nurses in training have to be accounted for? No. So why docs. It makes no sense. So hospitals pay for Physician Assistants instead because docs are too expensive because they are limited by the government, thus perpetuating the cycle. The government shouldn't be where that gets decided.

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snakesoup88 t1_jdjnltr wrote

Are you bleeding doctors because they can make more money in US? Or on YouTube?

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broyoyoyoyo t1_jdjtxou wrote

That's a contributing factor. The main factor is that our population is growing at a very high rate, and the rate of new graduating doctors can't keep up.

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HappiHappiHappi t1_jdjzj01 wrote

Yeah and probably having the same elitism problem were having in Australia. One expert recommended doubling the number of training places both for university and then in graduate internships but some people then started going on about "lesser quality applicants" getting in without acknowledging that despite a large growth in population the number of training places has remained fairly stagnant for the last 20 years and that even with doubling the number of places it would still be ridiculously competitive.

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broyoyoyoyo t1_jdk9qwe wrote

Oh yeah, sounds familiar for sure. There are some legitimate bottlenecks for increasing the residency spots (the number of residency spots you can open is limited by the number of doctors you already have), but there's a lot of other nonsense. We bring in a lot of immigrant doctors and give them no streamlined way to convert their credentials so they can work here, so a lot of them just end up driving taxis.

Medical school here is insanely competitive, so much so that a lot of brilliant students don't bother with it at all (you risk doing 4 years in Life/Health Science and then getting fucked when you don't get into Med School).

Not to mention that it takes an absurdly long to become a doctor here. 4 years undergrad + 4 years med school + 3 years internship + another 2 years internship if you want to specialize. Why don't we streamline the process by cutting out the undergrad like most countries? Because, like you say, some think it'll dilute the quality of our doctors, which is nonsense since it takes less time to become a doctor in most countries where healthcare is just as good.

Holding the profession up on too high a pedestal is preventing Canadians from receiving adequate healthcare.

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TheProfessionalEjit t1_jdljevw wrote

We had that bollocks here in NZ too. Another reason given for not increasing the number of training facilities was that once qualified, the doctors & nurses would go to another country; no thought whatsoever about bonding or writing off student loans if they stayed for x years, just "nah".

At the same time non-elective procedures are being cancelled because we don't have the staff...

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Beat-the-heat t1_jdr3p00 wrote

>but some people then started going on about "lesser quality applicants" getting in

Aren't a large number of doctors in Australia basically just Indians who migrate then pass the medical exam there? wouldn't local training still be preferable?

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OneLessFool t1_jdkbo0b wrote

No, that's only a small part of it.

It's because we stopped expanding the number of medical graduates and residencies (not just doctors either) to keep up with population growth. 40 years ago we had over 6 doctors per 1000 people. But then we started voting for people like Mulroney and Chrétien and it was all downhill from there as we slowly destroyed public services and crown corps in favour of neoliberal economics.

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ceaton604 t1_jdl2px9 wrote

It’s worse: in 1992 the feds and provinces got together and agreed to actually reduce the numbers to save money. Yes, they went back on that deal but it led to the deficit we are still in.

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Disco_Ninjas_ t1_jdktszq wrote

The medical schools control the number of docs like the diamond companies control the flow of diamonds to keep wages high and physicians valuable.

Pharmacy schools do not, which is why pharmacists get treated like shit.

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[deleted] t1_jdifvcg wrote

It makes sense for Greece cause after world war II and before people started moving to the cities the pinacle of profession was doctor or a lawyer. This notion stood strong up until 2000's

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os_nesty t1_jdkd9rq wrote

Ok Cuba, we have a lot of doctors, working in restaurants or in USA... not working as doctors...

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emcee1 t1_jdle90u wrote

The best (often only) doctor you can get in remote areas of Brazil are from Cuba.

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string1969 t1_jdhrb2f wrote

Russia and Cuba, man, they hit the sweet spot.

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someguyonline00 t1_jdi5cnr wrote

I mean, Cubans have a significantly higher life expectancy than Americans, so yes, their healthcare system certainly hits the sweet spot in at least one important aspect

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AverageAustralian111 t1_jdi72xv wrote

This is not a sound causality chain, US life expectancy is pulled way down by the mountain of drug overdoses they have among young people.

Life expectancy is the result of more factors than just healthcare quality, just because a country has a higher life expectancy, does not mean they have better healthcare and vis versa.

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pk10534 t1_jdjaxw4 wrote

Thank you omg. People seem to think life expectancy directly measured the efficacy of a country’s healthcare system, and while that’s certainly a part of it, it’s not the full story. Car crashes, fried foods that cause heart disease, overdoses, homicides, suicides, etc all play info life expectancy. You could have the best hospitals and doctors in the world, but if your citizens are constantly getting into car accidents or eating unhealthy diets their entire lives, it’s still going to drag down your life expectancy.

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mr_wetape t1_jdjpp3g wrote

Well, healthcare system is not just having doctors and hospitals, promoting better eating, campaigns to safe drug usage, mental health support preventing suicides and others are all part of a good healthcare system. You can have the best doctors and hospitals, but you also make them accessible and promote good habbits in your population.

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AverageAustralian111 t1_jdjyjil wrote

If you broaden the definition of "healthcare system," some of these things could be considered due to a bad healthcare system.

Suicide has almost no correlation with healthcare availability (or standard of living more broadly)

And it would be a gigantic stretch to say, blame motor vehicle deaths on the healthcare system.

What both of us are saying is that healthcare system is a factor in life expectancy, but you can't deduce from life expectancy how good a healthcare system is.

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CallMeAnanda t1_jdiah41 wrote

Why doesn’t Cuba have a drug problem?

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AverageAustralian111 t1_jdid5vq wrote

Most countries in the world don't have drug problems (on the scale of the US), the question you should be asking is "Why does the US have such an awful drug problem?"

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Affectionate_Song859 t1_jdihjjv wrote

Can't buy drugs if you don't have money

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Eric1491625 t1_jdl9it7 wrote

Drugs are actually cheap to produce though. They're only expensive in places that really try to ban them.

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AHippie347 t1_jdlpoke wrote

Than how come they have money for 8.42 medical personell per 1000 people?

0

duncanmcewin t1_jdjfmv8 wrote

You could argue the large number of opioid drug overdoses in the US is largely due to failures in the healthcare system (overprescribing, lack of training / understanding around the function of opioids)

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AverageAustralian111 t1_jdjhzgi wrote

It definitely could be a component, but saying that "higher life expectancy means a better healthcare system" is a gross oversimplification to the point of uselessness.

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craz1000 t1_jdlinez wrote

Im cuban. Trust me when I say that quantity does not equal quality.

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IronFFlol t1_jdijuk9 wrote

No… life expectancy is around the same for the U.S. and Cuba.

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thealterlion t1_jdjxd39 wrote

although the economy and standard of life is usually considered to be far better in the US than Cuba, but nontheless Cuba has managed to be on pair with the americans on life expectancy

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volkano580 t1_jdig19f wrote

So the farther north I go in international waters, the less physicians there are!

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cozy_ross t1_jdk1atw wrote

Are you sure there are that little physicians in Ukraine, lol? 😅

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PsychologicalDark398 t1_jdndj8v wrote

Probably war effect??

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cozy_ross t1_jdneec9 wrote

I don’t have the exact numbers but as a Ukrainian I can say that we have a decent number of physicians, or so I think. I haven’t ever experienced a problem of waiting in the lost for more than a few days, usually you just wait for a 2-5 hours in a live queue. And from what I heard it looks like there’s a huge problem with waiting time in other EU countries (Portugal, Poland, Germany), because people can wait for their consultation with a doctor for months there.

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SaltRharris t1_jdiq4as wrote

So everyone i met was a doctor in Cuba.

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ExHax t1_jdkg7oo wrote

Now do per state in US, im sure there too much in some and too little in others

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Level_Village1968 t1_jdmfpq7 wrote

Do the same for lawyers. Us wins that, hands down. Priorities!

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Redfish680 t1_jdktle8 wrote

Sure, but the ones in Russia are sweeping streets.

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Explorer335 t1_jdkz01x wrote

Is this why a 7-minute virtual visit costs me $293 dollars?

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Gareth009 t1_jdlimu5 wrote

In the US, the AMA controls membership into its exclusive club creating scarcity, high income, and high prices.

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J_Shinguarto t1_jdlrri1 wrote

Greece really makes sence... but Cuba?

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King-Of-Rats t1_jdm2r3a wrote

I went to college with a lot of people from South American and was really taken aback with how… easy it seemed to become a doctor.

​

Like don’t get me wrong I was at a fairly high level university and all it’s not like these students were dumb - but the impression I got was that you can largely just decide to become a doctor out of high school and then more or less qualify to enter med school immediately.

Not to say doctors from these regions are worse, but it’s odd to meet like a 25 year old who casually finished med school last year

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Bleakwind t1_jdmka5k wrote

Is the top number a rank or physician per 1000?

So confusing

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rdfporcazzo t1_jdmv8ge wrote

So much space to label Brazil, Uruguay, Peru, Chile, Ecuador... and yet they decide to not

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indocon1111 t1_jdpdgj3 wrote

Wow, Argentina looks to have a big excess of physicians, the revolutionary Che Guerra was one of them.

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tazzietiger66 t1_jdl7fdq wrote

Cuba - we have great cigars and great doctors if you get lung cancer .

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jasonmbergman t1_jdlf3fv wrote

In Russia you can become a doctor by just staying sober.

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Danmarmir t1_jdj22ub wrote

Cuban having all the doctors but no equipment or actually modern medicine

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giteam OP t1_jdhmodp wrote

Source Original source has map that changes per year, but we collected the most recent data for each country and put it all together (i.e. USA data is from 2018, so on the 2020 map it shows as no data)

Newsletter

Tools: Figma, Tableau

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giantpunda t1_jdkuj5n wrote

Do you have access to the raw data that you put together? When sorting the table of most recent value a lot of the rankings don't even remotely line up.

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dinobug77 t1_jdln1d5 wrote

I looked at 2 countries from your source - UK and Australia. You have both figures wrong.

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Haspic t1_jdk4rkw wrote

Hmm i see everyone talk about doctors but doesn't physicians mean the people working in physics research or stuff like this?

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FacelessFellow t1_jdihuia wrote

So even if the U.S. had free healthcare, there aren’t enough doctors to treat us all anyway? Cool cool cool.

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vendetta0311 t1_jdk6bdn wrote

1 doctor for every 20 people isn’t enough??

Oops misread the graph. 2.8 per 1000*

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