Submitted by giteam t3_120km4f in dataisbeautiful
Comments
string1969 t1_jdhrb2f wrote
Russia and Cuba, man, they hit the sweet spot.
RelativeDoughnut6967 t1_jdi1jxf wrote
Originally I thought this said 53 physicians per 1000 In the US and I was really not liking my odds in the future
noradorakara t1_jdi2ach wrote
Jeez...maybe try better labeling
someguyonline00 t1_jdi5cnr wrote
I mean, Cubans have a significantly higher life expectancy than Americans, so yes, their healthcare system certainly hits the sweet spot in at least one important aspect
someguyonline00 t1_jdi5jjg wrote
How is 2.61 physicians better than 53, or did I misunderstand — genuinely curious
AverageAustralian111 t1_jdi72xv wrote
This is not a sound causality chain, US life expectancy is pulled way down by the mountain of drug overdoses they have among young people.
Life expectancy is the result of more factors than just healthcare quality, just because a country has a higher life expectancy, does not mean they have better healthcare and vis versa.
DunderLubbin t1_jdi98qb wrote
53rd place
someguyonline00 t1_jdi9i2v wrote
Yeah, but they were concerned before they realized it was 53rd place, no? Not after?
CallMeAnanda t1_jdiah41 wrote
Why doesn’t Cuba have a drug problem?
RelativeDoughnut6967 t1_jdibu2j wrote
Its not better In general, but it makes it seem like the job market is decreasing/full
Derpazor1 t1_jdid39o wrote
Canada’s healthcare is in deep trouble right now
AverageAustralian111 t1_jdid5vq wrote
Most countries in the world don't have drug problems (on the scale of the US), the question you should be asking is "Why does the US have such an awful drug problem?"
[deleted] t1_jdifvcg wrote
It makes sense for Greece cause after world war II and before people started moving to the cities the pinacle of profession was doctor or a lawyer. This notion stood strong up until 2000's
volkano580 t1_jdig19f wrote
So the farther north I go in international waters, the less physicians there are!
Affectionate_Song859 t1_jdihjjv wrote
Can't buy drugs if you don't have money
FacelessFellow t1_jdihuia wrote
So even if the U.S. had free healthcare, there aren’t enough doctors to treat us all anyway? Cool cool cool.
IronFFlol t1_jdijnkm wrote
Yes if there’s 53/1000, that’s wayyy too high. That probably means that that job market for doctors is extremely saturated.
IronFFlol t1_jdijuk9 wrote
No… life expectancy is around the same for the U.S. and Cuba.
MarleyandtheWhalers t1_jdin0ij wrote
When the title is "NUMBER of Physicians per 1000" and the biggest NUMBER is the rank, it's objectively confusing
Tarantula_The_Wise t1_jdipzvx wrote
Pretty much the same till 2021, COVID really fucked up Americans.
SaltRharris t1_jdiq4as wrote
So everyone i met was a doctor in Cuba.
hoffmanmclaunsky t1_jditonh wrote
Oh wow, I didn't even catch that. Makes this a pretty terrible visualization.
BIGBUMPINFTW t1_jdivw5j wrote
Ok so you're referring to the job market as a potential future physician. That context would have been helpful.
RelativeDoughnut6967 t1_jdiwtb1 wrote
Yeah sorry, I realize it wasn't clear enough
[deleted] t1_jdixqkb wrote
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Danmarmir t1_jdj22ub wrote
Cuban having all the doctors but no equipment or actually modern medicine
pk10534 t1_jdjaxw4 wrote
Thank you omg. People seem to think life expectancy directly measured the efficacy of a country’s healthcare system, and while that’s certainly a part of it, it’s not the full story. Car crashes, fried foods that cause heart disease, overdoses, homicides, suicides, etc all play info life expectancy. You could have the best hospitals and doctors in the world, but if your citizens are constantly getting into car accidents or eating unhealthy diets their entire lives, it’s still going to drag down your life expectancy.
duncanmcewin t1_jdjfmv8 wrote
You could argue the large number of opioid drug overdoses in the US is largely due to failures in the healthcare system (overprescribing, lack of training / understanding around the function of opioids)
AverageAustralian111 t1_jdjhzgi wrote
It definitely could be a component, but saying that "higher life expectancy means a better healthcare system" is a gross oversimplification to the point of uselessness.
snakesoup88 t1_jdjnltr wrote
Are you bleeding doctors because they can make more money in US? Or on YouTube?
Distinct-Ad-4464 t1_jdjoqhh wrote
It gets worse, see Russia at 26 (3.82) vs Australia at 40 (4.13)
mr_wetape t1_jdjpp3g wrote
Well, healthcare system is not just having doctors and hospitals, promoting better eating, campaigns to safe drug usage, mental health support preventing suicides and others are all part of a good healthcare system. You can have the best doctors and hospitals, but you also make them accessible and promote good habbits in your population.
Sahih t1_jdjpxrt wrote
Your comments were less confusing than the graph, but thanks for the clarification. Either way, best of luck!
... Does 'break a leg' help or hurt your chances?
[deleted] t1_jdjr49c wrote
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broyoyoyoyo t1_jdjtxou wrote
That's a contributing factor. The main factor is that our population is growing at a very high rate, and the rate of new graduating doctors can't keep up.
MarleyandtheWhalers t1_jdjuhwo wrote
Probably makes sense if Australia is 3.13... ugh
HappiHappiHappi t1_jdjvny7 wrote
Even at 53/1000 can still basically guarantee there'd be a shortage of GPs/family medicine drs. Too much work and not enough par compared to other specialities for most people, which is sad because it is the speciality that really is the most important and so many people could avoid seeing any other doctor if they received early, high quality primary care. For example my mother ended up in hospital for 4 days with a bladder infection because she couldn't get into the GP for 3 days before that so the infection had time to take hold.
thealterlion t1_jdjxd39 wrote
although the economy and standard of life is usually considered to be far better in the US than Cuba, but nontheless Cuba has managed to be on pair with the americans on life expectancy
AverageAustralian111 t1_jdjyjil wrote
If you broaden the definition of "healthcare system," some of these things could be considered due to a bad healthcare system.
Suicide has almost no correlation with healthcare availability (or standard of living more broadly)
And it would be a gigantic stretch to say, blame motor vehicle deaths on the healthcare system.
What both of us are saying is that healthcare system is a factor in life expectancy, but you can't deduce from life expectancy how good a healthcare system is.
HappiHappiHappi t1_jdjzj01 wrote
Yeah and probably having the same elitism problem were having in Australia. One expert recommended doubling the number of training places both for university and then in graduate internships but some people then started going on about "lesser quality applicants" getting in without acknowledging that despite a large growth in population the number of training places has remained fairly stagnant for the last 20 years and that even with doubling the number of places it would still be ridiculously competitive.
cozy_ross t1_jdk1atw wrote
Are you sure there are that little physicians in Ukraine, lol? 😅
sergestar t1_jdk2cpq wrote
yeah, what the hell?
Haspic t1_jdk4rkw wrote
Hmm i see everyone talk about doctors but doesn't physicians mean the people working in physics research or stuff like this?
vendetta0311 t1_jdk6bdn wrote
1 doctor for every 20 people isn’t enough??
Oops misread the graph. 2.8 per 1000*
broyoyoyoyo t1_jdk9qwe wrote
Oh yeah, sounds familiar for sure. There are some legitimate bottlenecks for increasing the residency spots (the number of residency spots you can open is limited by the number of doctors you already have), but there's a lot of other nonsense. We bring in a lot of immigrant doctors and give them no streamlined way to convert their credentials so they can work here, so a lot of them just end up driving taxis.
Medical school here is insanely competitive, so much so that a lot of brilliant students don't bother with it at all (you risk doing 4 years in Life/Health Science and then getting fucked when you don't get into Med School).
Not to mention that it takes an absurdly long to become a doctor here. 4 years undergrad + 4 years med school + 3 years internship + another 2 years internship if you want to specialize. Why don't we streamline the process by cutting out the undergrad like most countries? Because, like you say, some think it'll dilute the quality of our doctors, which is nonsense since it takes less time to become a doctor in most countries where healthcare is just as good.
Holding the profession up on too high a pedestal is preventing Canadians from receiving adequate healthcare.
OneLessFool t1_jdkbd1i wrote
It's insane because a little over 40 years ago we had over 6 doctors per 1000. But we collectively decided to vote in austerity lovers at the federal and provincial level like Mulroney and Chrétien. We stopped expanding the number of med school positions and residencies to match population growth. We stopped investing in public assets, stopped building public housing, sold off lucrative and beneficial public assets to "balance the budget" one random year every few years. The end result is a housing and healthcare system in rapid decline.
OneLessFool t1_jdkbo0b wrote
No, that's only a small part of it.
It's because we stopped expanding the number of medical graduates and residencies (not just doctors either) to keep up with population growth. 40 years ago we had over 6 doctors per 1000 people. But then we started voting for people like Mulroney and Chrétien and it was all downhill from there as we slowly destroyed public services and crown corps in favour of neoliberal economics.
os_nesty t1_jdkd9rq wrote
Ok Cuba, we have a lot of doctors, working in restaurants or in USA... not working as doctors...
ExHax t1_jdkg7oo wrote
Now do per state in US, im sure there too much in some and too little in others
Vidofnir_KSP t1_jdkibot wrote
Right, damn South Sudan is providing some sweet health care
Benu5 t1_jdklsik wrote
Fuck, I thought Niger was just nailing it for some reason, then read this.
FlamingSquirrel69 t1_jdkpkps wrote
That would be a physicist. Physician ≠ Physicist
Redfish680 t1_jdktle8 wrote
Sure, but the ones in Russia are sweeping streets.
Disco_Ninjas_ t1_jdktszq wrote
The medical schools control the number of docs like the diamond companies control the flow of diamonds to keep wages high and physicians valuable.
Pharmacy schools do not, which is why pharmacists get treated like shit.
giantpunda t1_jdkuj5n wrote
Do you have access to the raw data that you put together? When sorting the table of most recent value a lot of the rankings don't even remotely line up.
Darryl_Lict t1_jdkyyz9 wrote
Yeah, this is stupid. I was suspicious of the numbers, and then I read your comment.
Explorer335 t1_jdkz01x wrote
Is this why a 7-minute virtual visit costs me $293 dollars?
mormagils t1_jdkzx5b wrote
It took me way too long to figure that out. I was really going nuts that I was way worse at math than I thought. Then I realized. Really crappy labeling here.
cragglerock93 t1_jdl0x9x wrote
Not always the case - look at Afghanistan.
ceaton604 t1_jdl2px9 wrote
It’s worse: in 1992 the feds and provinces got together and agreed to actually reduce the numbers to save money. Yes, they went back on that deal but it led to the deficit we are still in.
Schwammstein t1_jdl2y2e wrote
Dont understand the complains..
tazzietiger66 t1_jdl7fdq wrote
Cuba - we have great cigars and great doctors if you get lung cancer .
Eric1491625 t1_jdl9it7 wrote
Drugs are actually cheap to produce though. They're only expensive in places that really try to ban them.
[deleted] t1_jdl9jf5 wrote
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emcee1 t1_jdle90u wrote
The best (often only) doctor you can get in remote areas of Brazil are from Cuba.
jasonmbergman t1_jdlf3fv wrote
In Russia you can become a doctor by just staying sober.
Gareth009 t1_jdlimu5 wrote
In the US, the AMA controls membership into its exclusive club creating scarcity, high income, and high prices.
craz1000 t1_jdlinez wrote
Im cuban. Trust me when I say that quantity does not equal quality.
TheProfessionalEjit t1_jdljevw wrote
We had that bollocks here in NZ too. Another reason given for not increasing the number of training facilities was that once qualified, the doctors & nurses would go to another country; no thought whatsoever about bonding or writing off student loans if they stayed for x years, just "nah".
At the same time non-elective procedures are being cancelled because we don't have the staff...
Haspic t1_jdlmlgi wrote
Ooh right! But what is a physician then?
dinobug77 t1_jdln1d5 wrote
I looked at 2 countries from your source - UK and Australia. You have both figures wrong.
[deleted] t1_jdloxva wrote
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AHippie347 t1_jdlpoke wrote
Than how come they have money for 8.42 medical personell per 1000 people?
J_Shinguarto t1_jdlrri1 wrote
Greece really makes sence... but Cuba?
DeathMetal007 t1_jdlsafk wrote
Why does the government control this? Do lawyers or nurses in training have to be accounted for? No. So why docs. It makes no sense. So hospitals pay for Physician Assistants instead because docs are too expensive because they are limited by the government, thus perpetuating the cycle. The government shouldn't be where that gets decided.
Designing_Data t1_jdluhnx wrote
I didn't like it either so I took matters into my own hands and built a better version from from scratch in the last 90 minutes
Edit to add that it's downloadable and contains all information needed to reproduce the data using Tableau and the world bank data
gabotuit t1_jdlvipv wrote
The nr is not far from US
Maleficent-Pepper-45 t1_jdlwb34 wrote
Haha so funny, you definitely won't need the minimum 6 years of hard work
King-Of-Rats t1_jdm2r3a wrote
I went to college with a lot of people from South American and was really taken aback with how… easy it seemed to become a doctor.
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Like don’t get me wrong I was at a fairly high level university and all it’s not like these students were dumb - but the impression I got was that you can largely just decide to become a doctor out of high school and then more or less qualify to enter med school immediately.
Not to say doctors from these regions are worse, but it’s odd to meet like a 25 year old who casually finished med school last year
TravelingSpermBanker t1_jdm4h4s wrote
Something fucked up called “supply and demand”
Affectionate_Song859 t1_jdm5dr2 wrote
They get paid very little. That's why they leave
reluctantview713 t1_jdm7niy wrote
It’s not the quantity, it’s the quality
AHippie347 t1_jdm92e1 wrote
Do you mean they get sent to countries afflicted by war or natural disasters for free?
[deleted] t1_jdmb9qh wrote
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Level_Village1968 t1_jdmfpq7 wrote
Do the same for lawyers. Us wins that, hands down. Priorities!
Affectionate_Song859 t1_jdmjcb0 wrote
No, they defect
Bleakwind t1_jdmka5k wrote
Is the top number a rank or physician per 1000?
So confusing
rdfporcazzo t1_jdmv8ge wrote
So much space to label Brazil, Uruguay, Peru, Chile, Ecuador... and yet they decide to not
PsychologicalDark398 t1_jdndj8v wrote
Probably war effect??
cozy_ross t1_jdneec9 wrote
I don’t have the exact numbers but as a Ukrainian I can say that we have a decent number of physicians, or so I think. I haven’t ever experienced a problem of waiting in the lost for more than a few days, usually you just wait for a 2-5 hours in a live queue. And from what I heard it looks like there’s a huge problem with waiting time in other EU countries (Portugal, Poland, Germany), because people can wait for their consultation with a doctor for months there.
[deleted] t1_jdouysu wrote
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indocon1111 t1_jdpdgj3 wrote
Wow, Argentina looks to have a big excess of physicians, the revolutionary Che Guerra was one of them.
Beat-the-heat t1_jdr3p00 wrote
>but some people then started going on about "lesser quality applicants" getting in
Aren't a large number of doctors in Australia basically just Indians who migrate then pass the medical exam there? wouldn't local training still be preferable?
Lonely-Description85 t1_jdsb06s wrote
It's very clearly understood.
HappiHappiHappi t1_jdsomuw wrote
You'd think so, but apparently not according to some.
giteam OP t1_jdhmodp wrote
Source Original source has map that changes per year, but we collected the most recent data for each country and put it all together (i.e. USA data is from 2018, so on the 2020 map it shows as no data)
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