[OC] Supersonic Inefficiency: Why the Concorde Was DecommissionedSubmitted by haboo213 t3_xtr2ft in dataisbeautiful
imakenosensetopeople t1_iqrd7s1 wrote
Reply to comment by ProfessorrFate in [OC] Supersonic Inefficiency: Why the Concorde Was Decommissioned by haboo213
Yep.
I wish we could start to tackle the non-flight times associated with flying instead. Boarding/de boarding, sitting on the tarmac, having to show up 2 hours early, etc. To take a 45 minute flight, it’s four hours from when I enter one airport and leave the other airport.
ProfessorrFate t1_iqrfdut wrote
Agree. But it’s often hard to embrace the message of “yeah, this is pretty much as good as it’s ever gonna get.” Not exactly an uplifting message the media might like to sell or that people want to hear. Especially in aviation, where the gains over the past 100 years have been mind-blowing (though in fact most of those gains occurred between 1903 and, say, 1973).
Since the 70s commercial aviation flying technology has mostly been about better safety and fuel efficiency. The first time I flew to Europe was on a 747 in the early 70’s. Now, some 50 years later, the typical economy class passenger experience is pretty much the same (if not worse).
Kev_Cav t1_iqurmj8 wrote
Maybe it's just an impression, but didn't air travel become much more affordable over the last 20 years? I remember when I was a kid, going to Japan or Thailand was a whole endeavour, you saved for it for years, it was the adventure of a lifetime, now it feels like any reasonably affluent middle-class couple can afford it without much fuss...
gHx4 t1_iquu502 wrote
Yes, there are more airlines doing flights more efficiently. The default package is about the same with a few corners cut. Planes are bigger and there's more routes to choose from, but the price of a ticket hasn't changed a lot.
Flights like LA to Chicago haven't changed price, but flights like LA to Osaka have. In other words domestic flights cost about the same after inflation, but international flights are now almost as cheap as domestic.
You can read a bit more here; the efficiency and selection are vastly different from the 40s.
ProfessorrFate t1_iqvgls8 wrote
Different market dynamics. And just looking at cost/distance doesn’t work well. Many short haul flights in the US are crazy expensive because of supply and demand (regional service on UA out of DEN or ORD is a good example).
Also: in Europe, the LCCs have to compete w railways — not so in the US, where airlines largely don’t compete w Amtrak (except in the Acela corridor).
Competition, supply/demand, AND distance (which is a cost function) all impact pricing. And of these three factors, distance is often the least significant variable in the model. Example: the ASM costs in the NYC-LA market are higher than, say, Denver to Billings, MT. But the amount of competition and demand/supply in these two markets varies dramatically, and therefore there are often cheaper fares to fly 2,475 nm from NY to LA than 455 nm from Denver to Billings.
HurlingFruit t1_iqv33gy wrote
What I cannot explain to my satisfaction is why airfare here in Europe is so much cheaper than back in the US. For example, I excluded LCCs because of their nickle-and-dime add-on fees and compared legacies, non-stop, coach, round trip, daytime departures of roughly the same distance. MEM-DEN United 872 nm, €616; MAD-DUB Iberia 902 nm, €133.
That is a ridiculous difference for essentially the same flight. Fortunately I'm taking the less expensive flight next month.
surreal_mash t1_iqvts3p wrote
You must have been trying to book during a holiday or other price surge; you could book MEM-DEN right now for under €100.
HurlingFruit t1_iqwowhk wrote
I ruled out Frontier when I said daytime departures.
iinavpov t1_irjwl5w wrote
The EU is serious about fighting monopolies, the US not.
donaldduz t1_iqvbn3u wrote
Covid seems to have reversed this and air fares are crazy expensive. Hopefully this is a short term problem while the supply side is sorted out. What do y'all think?
ProfessorrFate t1_iqvg1ta wrote
Yes, definitely more affordable now.
GrandArchitect t1_iqvw1gm wrote
When I flew regularly for work, when I had regional clients, I eventually gave up on flying and just drove instead. It would be a bit more time, and yes, driving sucks, but the wildly inconsistent delays and cancellations for the regional flights made it way more predictable to simply drive.
Even trains aren't as reliable here in the NE of US. Lots of closures, delays, cancellations regularly.
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