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MrsPizzaBitch t1_iqsgitf wrote

Reply to comment by dksjao10 in [OC] Top 10 Richest Russian Oligarchs in 2022 and their links to Putin by Spirited-Focus-7312

It's a very clear distinction, oligarchs in this case made their money from taking over Soviet industries, billionaires did it in other ways.

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dksjao10 t1_iqspmb0 wrote

Okay. Your definition oligarch indicates connection to Yeltsin and maybe Soviet regime (average Ivan didn’t privatize big companies). So, what graphs says people with connection to Putin and who are oligarch means that they were in good relationship with government in multiple regimes across time. In other word, good GR across multiple years/regimes means more money. Putin has been in power for 20+ years. So, to indicate Putin effect you may need show how net worth of oligarchs changed during 90s (Yeltsin effect) vs post 2000 (Putin effect). An obvious case that you will find is Mr. Khodorkovsky who clearly outperformed his peers during 90s and he was totally destroyed in the new century. The second case that can be interesting is pure Putin oligarchs, so they created their wealth during Putin’s era with a big chunk of revenue or funding coming from government.

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Ramental t1_iqsqlko wrote

With your logic of splitting between Yeltsin and Putin, it's expected that oligarchs that got rich in 90s before Putin would not have a reason/need to get tightly involved with him. Yet it's not the case, except for one. Even having the prior riches, they need to get into the deal with the current regime to keep it.

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dksjao10 t1_iqsur6g wrote

Well, in any country you have a lot of incentive to get involved with the government that is why GR is important for multinational companies. Government often brings a lot of money (Tesla, SpaceX) and it may also create a lot of problems (GDPR). Putin connection is the best form GR in Russia. Melnichenko on that graph is a clear indication that it wasn’t a necessary condition (he was neutral to Putin and stayed rich). Khodorkovsky is an indication that you couldn’t be against Putin and stay an oligarch. I am not expert, I just tell you more information will be better for a bigger picture.

Think about this. There is a regime change (new government is not communist), many people on the list will try to create good relationship with new government, so some oligarchs (those who succeeded) will become even richer (longer existence, longer/better GR, more money). However, their wealth would be possible to decompose into several parts: Yeltsin effect, Putin effect, New government effect.

P.S. GR doesn’t mean corruption per se. GR has legal forms as well, although current Russian GR is mostly corruption

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Ramental t1_iqswezx wrote

It all boils down to what "link" means on this graph. Is receiving a grant qualifies as a link? I'd assume it's not enough, but maybe? Is having Putin as a father-in-law for your children? What about the government co-owning shares in your company?

We'd need to look at that first, but it doesn't look like OP answered this question, so I don't have sufficient information to either agree or disagree with your views.

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