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Mister_Way t1_iqrg5mr wrote

How is a "link" described? One wonders how many American oligarchs may share links, as well.

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Spirited-Focus-7312 OP t1_iqrgkct wrote

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_billionaires

Tools used: Excel, Datawrapper, Canva

Almost all of Russia's richest are directly affiliated with, if not in Mr Putin's inner ring of oligarch associates.

**Before anyone points out that Pavel Durov (Russia's 3rd richest person) is missing, do note that this is a graph of Russian oligarchs not just billionaires- which is why he is excluded from this top 10 list.

***Andrey Meinichenko's non-link designation is based on his personal practices and business approach, which repeatedly demonstrates attempts to be not associated with, or be viewed as, an accomplice of Mr Putin's. Please inform me if this judgement is incorrect. I am happy to learn more.

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LSeww t1_iqs0eoh wrote

Keep in mind it's not that whoever had links got rich, it's that most unlinked rich people were removed.

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dksjao10 t1_iqs0xrf wrote

Replying to Spirited-Focus-7312 (#15,798)

How do you distinguish between oligarch and billionaire? First, you need to prove the difference or introduce a definition. Or just use billionaire who are Russian citizens at the moment.

Secondly, you need to provide a definition of the link between oligarch and Putin/government. If it is a quantifiable measure better to use scatter plot. If it is not quantifiable (e.g. friend, ex-classmate) then some labeling will help.

Right now, it is closer to Russian propaganda graph that proves what you want to prove. It can be correct, but it is not how it should be done.

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Lostinspace1950 t1_iqs5ksx wrote

Being an oligarch in Russia has been dangerous lately. The hav a tendency to fall out of windows.

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cmd_lines t1_iqs62e1 wrote

This post sponsored by Andrey Melnichenko

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NarcissusLovesEcho t1_iqsdj2c wrote

Replying to SilkyChalk (#16,358)

They did that with the first sentence. My question pertained to the second sentence. I was just wondering what American billionaires would possibly fall under the definition of a Russian oligarch. Maybe there are some, but that would be news to me. I'm just not aware of any Americans who made their fortunes by privatizing former Soviet state owned industries.

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authorPGAusten t1_iqsfmt5 wrote

Doesn't every super rich person at the very least know Putin? I mean I am pretty sure all the super rich people in the U.S. have some level of connection to whoever the president is.

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Mister_Way t1_iqslrhd wrote

Replying to NarcissusLovesEcho (#15,884)

Maybe the whole lot of the Russians are just a branch of a larger circle of global oligarchs. Links can go either direction, and Putin didn't take over the former Soviet Union without at least some tacit support from the West.

There isn't a billionaire alive who isn't part of the billionaire club...

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NarcissusLovesEcho t1_iqsnk2d wrote

Replying to Mister_Way (#17,302)

The Russian oligarchy has a very specific history and centralized power structure. And Putin's rise to power was very much an inside deal with Yeltsin and other former Soviet power brokers. They didn't need any help from the west.

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derern t1_iqspjk1 wrote

Can we just stop making the propagandistic distinction between oligarch/billionaire/philanthropist and just say that there's no legal/moral way to amass billions regardless of which side of the Atlantic you're on?

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dksjao10 t1_iqspmb0 wrote

Replying to MrsPizzaBitch (#17,129)

Okay. Your definition oligarch indicates connection to Yeltsin and maybe Soviet regime (average Ivan didn’t privatize big companies). So, what graphs says people with connection to Putin and who are oligarch means that they were in good relationship with government in multiple regimes across time. In other word, good GR across multiple years/regimes means more money. Putin has been in power for 20+ years. So, to indicate Putin effect you may need show how net worth of oligarchs changed during 90s (Yeltsin effect) vs post 2000 (Putin effect). An obvious case that you will find is Mr. Khodorkovsky who clearly outperformed his peers during 90s and he was totally destroyed in the new century. The second case that can be interesting is pure Putin oligarchs, so they created their wealth during Putin’s era with a big chunk of revenue or funding coming from government.

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Kehl21 t1_iqsq24y wrote

Vladimir Potanin lmao. He used that name because Putin was already chosen.

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Ramental t1_iqsqlko wrote

Replying to dksjao10 (#17,421)

With your logic of splitting between Yeltsin and Putin, it's expected that oligarchs that got rich in 90s before Putin would not have a reason/need to get tightly involved with him. Yet it's not the case, except for one. Even having the prior riches, they need to get into the deal with the current regime to keep it.

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dksjao10 t1_iqsur6g wrote

Replying to Ramental (#17,449)

Well, in any country you have a lot of incentive to get involved with the government that is why GR is important for multinational companies. Government often brings a lot of money (Tesla, SpaceX) and it may also create a lot of problems (GDPR). Putin connection is the best form GR in Russia. Melnichenko on that graph is a clear indication that it wasn’t a necessary condition (he was neutral to Putin and stayed rich). Khodorkovsky is an indication that you couldn’t be against Putin and stay an oligarch. I am not expert, I just tell you more information will be better for a bigger picture.

Think about this. There is a regime change (new government is not communist), many people on the list will try to create good relationship with new government, so some oligarchs (those who succeeded) will become even richer (longer existence, longer/better GR, more money). However, their wealth would be possible to decompose into several parts: Yeltsin effect, Putin effect, New government effect.

P.S. GR doesn’t mean corruption per se. GR has legal forms as well, although current Russian GR is mostly corruption

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Gaunts t1_iqsv51z wrote

What's Frank Reynolds doing in that list

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Ramental t1_iqswezx wrote

Replying to dksjao10 (#17,597)

It all boils down to what "link" means on this graph. Is receiving a grant qualifies as a link? I'd assume it's not enough, but maybe? Is having Putin as a father-in-law for your children? What about the government co-owning shares in your company?

We'd need to look at that first, but it doesn't look like OP answered this question, so I don't have sufficient information to either agree or disagree with your views.

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st4n13l t1_iqta58v wrote

Replying to NarcissusLovesEcho (#17,014)

>I was just wondering what American billionaires would possibly fall under the definition of a Russian oligarch.

They didn't say American billionaires would fall under the definition of Russian oligarch. They said American oligarchs with ties to Put in.

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Bluemoon7607 t1_iqtyph8 wrote

Timchenko looks like what I imagine a real life Darth Sidious would look like.

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Jon999917 t1_iqtyy0k wrote

Looks like Putin needs to take care of Andrey Melnichenko and take his money.

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[deleted] t1_iqu04jb wrote

It's amazing how much money and disparity they have...

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RDMvb6 t1_iqu7ayy wrote

I’d be more scared of the one with no known links. Like what did he do to hide it? He’s probably the sketchiest one here.

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kc_______ t1_iqu9634 wrote

Strangely it looks like a stair, they should avoid stairs, windows, random flying needles with poison, heck, even breathing could kill them in mother Russia.

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MycroFeline t1_iquahz6 wrote

r/keming wo uld lik e a w ord.

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MycroFeline t1_iquap6v wrote

I’m getting strong “Nobody” bad guy vibes from Gennady. He does not look like a happy guy.

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chadrik t1_iqubfv0 wrote

Not sure how revelatory this is: isn’t having political influence part of the definition of “oligarch”?

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ElderWandOwner t1_iquczmk wrote

Replying to NarcissusLovesEcho (#18,421)

It wasn't even the same person that replied. It's pretty obvious he was asking about what it would look like if it was americans instead of russians.

Protip, in the future when you don't understand something don't get so defensive. It's a bad look.

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NeonsStyle t1_iqudbni wrote

The problem with getting into bed with a Dictator is you tend to go down with him when he falls and is hung!

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hookemhottie21 t1_iquews8 wrote

This post looks like it's made by Andrey.

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penwellr t1_iqufqji wrote

Breaking, rich people have ties to the government in the country which they live..

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cfowen t1_iqugik9 wrote

Now do the American oligarchs.

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_-m0r0n-_ t1_iqurkzi wrote

I never understood - is this literally money in their own bank account or just a guestimated assessment of what their stocks and assets are worth?

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RippinLipsInSC t1_iqv0ne9 wrote

Replying to Mister_Way (#17,999)

Touch grass man. You’re not coming off as enlightened, smart, or having the ability to see through the veil. You just sound dumb, ignoring history and facts in favor of conspiracy.

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Pachaibiza t1_iqv5h1j wrote

Which ones aren’t being sanctioned. That would be a more interesting information to reveal.

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Yahallo139 t1_iqv6vff wrote

This seems like propaganda... I mean if you're top 0.001% something of the country ofc you might have contact with the president of the country

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bestvanillayoghurt t1_iqv7lri wrote

Top 10 Russians avoiding standing near windows and stairwells

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Quillo_Manar t1_iqv849c wrote

Incidentally:

🔴 - Not scared of windows

🔵 - Scared of windows

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bumblyburg t1_iqv96da wrote

I was looking for Dmitri Mazepin on here, not seeing him and can't decide if I'm disappointed or not.

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Owen5119 t1_iqv9sa2 wrote

I thought it was Danny DeVito

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welp_thats_hurtful t1_iqvacea wrote

I like how their net worth is directly proportional to how Russian their name is

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Me_Melissa t1_iqvcdkc wrote

Replying to NarcissusLovesEcho (#17,014)

The second sentence was just an extension of the first, explaining its motivation. You could read the second sentence as, "I'm curious how Link is defined, and whether it's defined broadly enough to include Americans."

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LadyLee2002 t1_it5u40n wrote

Where is Vitaly Malkin? You should take a look ant this guy:

>On the 74th floor of the Time Warner Center, Condominium 74B was purchased in 2010 for $15.65 million by a secretive entity called 25CC ST74B L.L.C. It traces to the family of Vitaly Malkin, a former Russian senator and banker who was barred from entering Canada because of suspected connections to organized crime.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/nyregion/stream-of-foreign-wealth-flows-to-time-warner-condos.html

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