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nerdyjorj t1_iqvmuym wrote

Your conclusion is wrong - males find both equally bad, females find emotional cheating worse than physical.


__kit t1_iqvpkng wrote

came here to say this, makes you question the methodology


ashtree-lane t1_iqxodwi wrote

The methodology of asking 50 friends? Lol, This is not data


PTEHarambe t1_iqvggc5 wrote

How does one cheat emotionally without at least the intent of physically cheating?


iphigenia22 t1_iqvlkcg wrote

Emotional betrayal can and, with the exception of one night stand, it usually does occur long before the sex in affairs - exchanging numbers, hiding texts, allowing a connection to build. It's very easy to tell oneself that it's just fun and banter but that lack of emotional boundary often inevitably leads to deeper attraction and attachment, and that leads to increased likelihood of physical infidelity.


PTEHarambe t1_iqwo4cn wrote

My hypothetical significant other can try that argument but I ain't buying it.


iphigenia22 t1_iqwop0w wrote

I'm not quite clear on your meaning; are you saying you would be happy for your (hypothetical) s/o to build up such an emotional attachment with someone else or that you'd expect them to indulge you in your doing so? Or perhaps I've misunderstood entirely?


PTEHarambe t1_iqwowr9 wrote

When I say "I ain't buying it" I mean that I would not believe it.


iphigenia22 t1_iqwpa7i wrote

Yes, I got that post, but in what context, not believe what? Did you mean if s/o told you they're just close friends with someone you wouldn't buy it? It's not clear to me what you are not believing in the given scenario.


PTEHarambe t1_iqwqncm wrote

To be clear obviously me and my s/o will have friends we talk and hangout with separately from one another. That's normal life. I just don't consider that cheating which is what my original comment was questioning. If there was a scenario where that was happening with the intention of getting intimate with said person then that would be something I'd be upset about. I still don't consider it "emotional cheating" I consider it sorta like the law treats conspiring to commit a crime vs actually commiting said crime.


NeverNotUnstoppable t1_iqxw2nv wrote

>I just don't consider that cheating

Nor does anyone else, are you being deliberately obtuse here? Cheating is any interaction with a potential partner that you feel you need to keep secret from your SO for fear of relationship repercussions.


iphigenia22 t1_iqwt08a wrote

Right, got you. I'd certainly agree that having other friends to confide in and discuss issues etc is absolutely normal and healthy. That may not have been clear from the above comment alone but I'd written a very long one above and didn't want to repeat the content.

I think most of us over a certain age know when we're approaching that line where a regular friendship begins to have a feeling of being deeper or more significant than it perhaps ought too. A wise person who wishes to protect their relationship will redirect course at that point, a person only out for their own gain will not. We pro-actively protect what we value. A person with integrity who is genuinely committed (in the sense of loyalty not law) will not allow a situation to arise that threatens their established relationship in the first place.

There's certainly nothing wrong with having an attraction to another person whilst in a relationship, but when our actions don't prioritise protecting the relationship over our indulging said attraction under the disingenuous guide of friendship, that's when I'd suggest it begins to creep into the realms of emotional infidelity, ponder it gets to hiding texts and telling white lies it's generally a downhill slope to breaking someone else's heart.


hannigong4dmi OP t1_iqvhcsx wrote

The example that came up was like having a romantic relationship purely online - so we assume that nothing physical can happen in that instance!


857477458 t1_iqvhoem wrote

I've definitely slept with many women I met online. The idea that an online relationship can't become real is pretty inconsistent with reality.


hannigong4dmi OP t1_iqvi9tr wrote

you're a gigachad for real - but this was purely a hypothetical scenario! so just a which one is worse to you in theory


857477458 t1_iqvk0i2 wrote

The MAJORITY of relationships start online these days. Were literally at the point where if you HAVEN'T slept with someone you met online you're a weirdo. It's not 2005 anymore.


moral_luck t1_iqvtwj4 wrote

I haven't even met anyone online. But, admittedly, I am a weirdo.


iphigenia22 t1_iqvvzmz wrote

I love the way you present that as if 2005 is ancient history 😂😂


857477458 t1_iqvwqpr wrote

I'm not. It's simply that if you told someone in 2005 that you met someone online and wanted to meet IRL they would tell you that it's probably a rapist or serial killer. These days nobody will blink twice about it.


iphigenia22 t1_iqvx2us wrote

I agree, I meant it in jest, it just made me laugh reading it.


BBOoff t1_iqw1yxu wrote

By having an intimate relationship with someone. When you are regularly telling them things about your day that bothered or pleased you and how they made you feel because you appreciate their input, while your SO just gets some version of "my day was fine," that is emotional cheating. In general, it is about making someone else your primary source of emotional fulfillment.

Marriage isn't intended to be purely about the sexual relationship, it is also a social and emotional partnership. Outsourcing that emotional partnership to someone outside the marriage without discussing it with your SO is no different from sleeping with someone else.


BlooAoiBlue t1_iqvh3r1 wrote

How many replies were men vs women?


hannigong4dmi OP t1_iqvfwkk wrote

Tools used: Tableau
Notes: Physical cheating was defined as anything just fulfilling physical needs but no romance, while emotional cheating is romance without any physical contact


YogurtclosetOdd4238 t1_iqvh0ak wrote

I don't get it. Can you give an example for emotional cheating? That's the first time I've heard that something like that even existed so I really can't imagine what emotional cheating could look like. Is it like flirting with someone else or something?


iphigenia22 t1_iqvl38y wrote

Emotional infidelity is quite a common term. There are many things that could fall into that category, for example a man (swap male/female to whatever suits you, it happens all ways, I'm just giving an example with no intended implications) in a committed relationship becomes involved in a deep friendship with another woman, he begins to confide in her, share secrets with her, spends an increasing amount of time with her and perhaps talks to her about problems in his relationship or shares confidential details of personal information (eg details of their sex life, a pregnancy that hasn't yet been publicly announced, details of his partners finances or medical conditions etc).

He is basically engaging with this woman in a way that would likely be uncomfortable to his partner, possibly unacceptable to her, and may be engaging in texts/ calls that need to be deleted/ hidden, which is a level of deception and not conducive to a strong relationship built on trust.

The partner meanwhile is not initially aware of this friendship, the woman has not - and likely will not - be introduced or even mentioned to the partner because the man enjoys having the attention of the second female and might be using it as a distraction from dealing with issues at home.

Believing all is normal in her relationship she continues to put her time and effort into being a good girlfriend/partner/wife and making her man happy, blissfully unaware at first of what is taking place. This would usually increase over time & begin to increasingly violate the trust and confines of the relationship. The partner is likely to feel a distance or detect a change and may start to become suspicious, feeling she is being left out, or as if she's being lined up to be replaced, and possibly a sense of betrayal.

Remember affairs don't usually begin with sex, they begin with smiles, conversations, a build up of familiarity, shared jokes and flirting etc until the person starts to check out of their existing relationships to fulfil their desires with the new person whilst betraying the loyalty and trust of their partner.

Women are also often more deeply hurt because men don't tend to cheat upwards, the last thing a cheating man wants is a woman who has her shit together just as much or even more than the woman he's got, one who will quickly catch on to his games and emotional immaturity and lack of boundaries, so he cheats with someone who will laugh at his jokes and massage his ego, and for women it's usually devastating because they have a strong habit of comparing themselves to the other woman as a way of trying to understand what needs the man got fulfilled elsewhere that she wants able to fulfill. Men don't usually put themselves through that comparison, they don't tend to assume they were they problem, and thus are usually more disgusted by the (thought of the) physicality of another man touching his woman.


ten-year-reset t1_iqxgmau wrote

>comparing themselves to the other woman as a way of trying to understand what needs the man got fulfilled elsewhere

This reminds me of something my wife said when we talked about infidelity: "If you cheated on me with another man, that's something I would understand, because he could do things for you that I couldn't"

I think she'd still leave me, there just wouldn't be any "why are you with that floozie?" in the ensuing argument and barrage of dishes hurled my way.

Interesting point about men not cheating upwards. I'd never considered that before, but it makes perfect sense.


iphigenia22 t1_iqxjvoi wrote

I can't offer any statistical evidence but my anecdotal experience is that women often take infidelity with an internal sense of failure on their part, even if their brain tells them it was completely "on him". Men seem to internalise it far less.

The need to understand "why" is more obtainable if the reason was that the husband had an undisclosed sexual attraction or preference for other men. A woman may, after the initial hurt, be able to feel a level of understanding and commission in such a scenario, but when it's with another woman there is no reason that can offer any comfort, the only small solace is absolute honesty to whatever questions she may have.

Often it opens a door for the woman to question if she could have done something to prevent it, analysing her looks, struggling with her stuff esteem etc which in turn less to crippling amounts of insecurity, self doubt and inevitable comparison.

It's quite common for women to become fixated with the "other woman", feeling a need to know about her appearance and personality. I've noted that in instances such as infidelity that women often cling to obtaining information as a way of intenally maintaining some sense of order and control whilst trying to process & make sense of a situation.

Of course this is a large generalisation and there will be plentiful exceptions but such responses are surprisingly common.


YogurtclosetOdd4238 t1_iqwf3yz wrote

Holy smokes, dude. Thank you very much for your effort and your time. I definitely understand now what 'emotional cheating' is and totally can understand it, why people don't like it.

Since I've read so much about cheating on the internet and how common it is, I think I would feel the most comfortable by getting an Android. Or a hype realistic love doll.


iphigenia22 t1_iqwix4s wrote

You're very welcome. I understand your reaction too, and hopefully you've never had nor will have to experience such a situation, because for many people - of any gender - it can be absolutely devastating to have ones trust betrayed and the thing about betrayal is that it is never done by our perceived enemies but by those we loved and had faith in.

Those who cheat aren't necessarily bad people, they're often just emotionally immature, and those who do it repeatedly are most likely caught in a subconscious cycle of wanting love or sometimes just validation but being unable to cope with relationships. People who stay desire multiple offenses are also doing so to try to meet some subconscious need.

IMO it's unfortunate that society promotes falling into relationships so easily and we fail young people by but teaching them the absolute necessity to learn to qualify the people we meet as friends, lovers, partners, business associates etc - so many people end up in messy situations because they simply didn't take the time to qualify and observe someone before granting them access to their life at these levels.

Although there is inherent risk in trusting another person, we humans are wired for connection and will always seek it. That risk can be greatly reduced by knowing ourselves better, being clear about our wants, needs, expectations & boundaries. That self awareness affords us a level of protection. People that give anyone and everyone access to themselves at an emotional and physical level, let alone sexual, often fail to have a full sense of their own worth. If one values something, they naturally protect it, that also applies to our own hearts, sadly many people don't learn that lesson until after theirs has been broken.

For anyone interested in learning more about those things and creating harmonious successful romantic relationships I would suggest The Gottman Institute as a good starting place, check out their IG for example.


Abeyita t1_iqvifpa wrote

To me it is emotional cheating when he shares thoughts and emotions he usually would only share with me.


moral_luck t1_iqvtal2 wrote

Which emotions are those though? Sadness? Loss? Grief? Happiness? Success?

I think this is bad message for people (and men in particular) if you are only allowed to share certain emotions with a single person. Building more emotional connections is good for everybody.


Abeyita t1_iqvtoax wrote

Some emotions and thoughts are only to be shared with certain people imo. It is part of the bond of trust between partners. Just like some activities are only to be shared with certain people. The activities are physical cheating, the emotions are emotional cheating.


moral_luck t1_iqvule5 wrote

Which emotions?


Abeyita t1_iqvvac3 wrote

Emotions about personal things that would normally not be shared with someone else than the SO. Some things stay within the relationship and are not to leave it.


moral_luck t1_iqvvo81 wrote

So which emotions are those? Can you give a specific example.


Abeyita t1_iqvw8uv wrote

Did you read my comment? It can be any human emotion. It's about the things that are supposed to stay within the relationship. Have you ever been in a serious relationship? Did you not talk and share about stuff that weren't supposed to leave the relationship? Did you not go through things together that were non of anyones business except of you two?


moral_luck t1_iqvxjhc wrote

Yes, I have a serious relationship. And I share my emotions with a number of people. If I'm frustrated with my partner, I share that frustration with friends.

But from this thread, I'm gathering that friends are a form of "emotional cheating".

There is information that is only for partners (the same is true for familial and friendship relationships too), but emotions? Emotions ≠ information.

Which emotions should I not be sharing?


Abeyita t1_iqvxu4x wrote

You shouldn't share frustrations about your partner with friends. It makes your partner look bad and they will see your partner in a bad light even after you resolved things with your partner.


moral_luck t1_iqvy7qp wrote

That's not how it works. Sharing frustrations is not talking shit.

You've never told a friend how your partner leaves their socks on the floor? How they never fold the laundry? etc?

It's a pretty common and basic thing to do. You've expressed to your partner you'd like them to fold the laundry when it's done, etc. and they continue to fail to do it. Instead of bottling your emotions, you share them before they build up.


Abeyita t1_iqvyt3i wrote

No, my partner is an adult and can pick up after himself. And even if he did, why would I be telling friends that? It only paints an immature picture of my partner. And of me.


moral_luck t1_iqvz3wy wrote

You've never expressed frustration about anything about your partner to a friend?

I don't think you're going to give the information I seek from you (which emotions are banned from sharing).

So have a great day. And maintain friendships outside your partner. It's not healthy to be solely attached to one person. And potentially dangerous.


Abeyita t1_iqvzege wrote

I have very good friends, I've had them for literally decades. But no I do not have ever expressed frustration about my partner. There is no need to. And it isn't right imo.


moral_luck t1_iqvzqwi wrote

>There is no need to

Tell me you are in short (< 5 years) relationship without telling me you are in short relationship.


tico_pico t1_iqwolfj wrote

Are you autistic?


iphigenia22 t1_iqxf8w2 wrote

How on earth do you connect neurodiversity to this person's comment? It seems as if you're using it as a form of insult rather than a sincere enquiry about neurodiversity, and if that is the case it's both ignorant and ugly.


iphigenia22 t1_iqx4awo wrote

I don't believe it's the sharing of certain emotions, rather the emotional impact of an undisclosed level of closeness with another specific person that would leave the partner feeling uncomfortable or violated. It's absolutely healthy to share and discuss emotions and issues with friends outside of the relationship, but if that then leads to things always being shared with one person to the detriment of the relationship (because closeness and intimacy build with the friend and not effort is being made to maintain the father energy with the partner), or if private information is being shared without the second partners consent or knowledge, or where the first person has to hide communication or lie about the friend, those amongst other examples would all potentially feel like a violation and betrayal to the partner, which can be emotionally devastating. The "emotional" aspect therefore refers to the degree of emotional connection shared outside the relationship and the emotional impact that has on the unknowing partner, not avoiding sharing certain emotions. The confines of what would be deemed acceptable may vary somewhat within different relationships but most people have a sense of what it means to be engaging in a duplicitous action that needs to be concealed rather than sharing emotions and experiences in a genuine friendship which pose no threat to the relationship.


moral_luck t1_iqxmvby wrote

>with another specific person that would leave the partner feeling uncomfortable

This applies to all close relationships, no matter the category: romantic, friend, family, business, etc. It's a betrayal of trust not "emotional cheating".

Still not sold on the idea of "emotional cheating"


iphigenia22 t1_iqxsvrb wrote

I think you can word it however works best for you, but it's a very well established and used term both in societal and therapeutic circles.

Trust can be broken at many different levels, trust can be broken in a way that's hurtful and infuriating without causing emotional distress. Certainly betrayal by a friend, family member or business partner is an awful experience but in most cases these do not have the hallmark of the unfaithful person having developed a new bond that mimics the basis of the relationship. Emotional infidelity usually involves the perpetrator buildingvs second connection that has many of the signs and feelings of a genuine full relationship, which directly undermines the relationship they're supposedly already invested in.

  1. people that screw over their business partner do so for financial gain, it's less intimate and business often comes with such risks. A business partner can do other deals without it having any significance to your business arrangement.

  2. The expectations are usually vastly different of friends and family members than of a partner, certainly when it is a marriage. One can easily understand & accept that they don't know about new people their family members get involved with. If your husband were to start having regular lunches or after works drinks alone with a new friend or colleague, that might be something you'd expect to be kept in the loop about. Trust in relationships is commonly built by, amongst other things, revealing ones life to the partner, introducing them to people that are of significance. If eg your sister starts dating a new guy you likely have no cause to be upset that you haven't been told about this new person, and the relationship didn't threshed to replace your own - quite different if it's your spouse. The very act of sharing information about relevant others in your world solidifies bonds already established & increases feelings of trust and safety. When it has to be covered up and hidden then it's likely not a mere platonic friendship, a violation of trust odd taking place even though it's not yet a sexual infidelity

  3. People tend to invest a great deal more of their emotional energy and sense of safety in their romantic partnerships. This generally increases with age when relationships become more serious and begin involving children, joint finances etc. A betrayal of that, leaves people's worlds split asunder. By virtue of the very nature of long term committed sexual relationships that bond is very close, very intimate and closeness brings vulnerability. People share their past, their hopes and fears and pains with each other. People usually trust their partner with a level of vulnerability that simply doesn't equal that in business. Having some money stolen is argued but not comparable to heartbreak and having to see the face of that person every morning or going through dividing assets.

I think time is also a factor, I'm not taking about a one off lunch, an ill thought out emoji or a slightly flirtatious singular response, I'm talking about a partner engaging with another person at the level that would only be expected to occur between a couple. I'm talking about consistent deception by the person you love and share your life with, I think for most people in love the experiences is generally devastating and it's always at an emotional level.


moral_luck t1_iqy71op wrote

I still think the term "emotional cheating" is a very bad term and has the (harmful) connotation that sharing emotions is something you do with almost exclusively one person.

That's bad for both people - the sharer, because it limits the range of emotions they may be willing to share - and the sharee, because they are now exclusively burden with the emotional labor of the their partner.

TLDR the term is a bad term, and potentially reinforces unhealthy emotional management.


iphigenia22 t1_iqzhtcz wrote

From my perspective that's just an incorrect or uninformed understanding of the term as per it's regular definition. It's been used in therapy and socially for years so I don't suppose it's going to current any time soon.


hannigong4dmi OP t1_iqvhubk wrote

Yup the hypothetical we gave was like online dating for eg so nothing physical but still involving feelings


857477458 t1_iqvhfvd wrote

Pretty normal results representing the asymmetric nature of cheating in evolutionary psychology. Men will always be concerned of false paternity from physical cheating since it can burden a man with decades of expenses. This fear doesn't exist for women so their concern is instead losing financial support which comes from losing emotional investment.


shitbiochemist t1_iqy0ye2 wrote

Perhaps a less offensive way to qualify the asymmetric nature of cheating would be to say that a women is generally able to physically cheat much easier than a man is. While a man is able to emotionally cheat much easier than… they can physically cheat haha. The fear could be based on lack of control? Idk 🤷‍♂️


857477458 t1_iqy2hk7 wrote

If the truth offends you then you need to seriously consider your positions.


shitbiochemist t1_iqy66ah wrote

Cool. Perhaps a woman’s “financial support” in regards to relationship integrity is less relevant today than ever in history, so your argument is shittier by the day. yer talking with a shit expert so


857477458 t1_iqy6eee wrote

The way things are today is irrelevant. Our instincts are still stuck in the Stone Age even if we aren't.


shitbiochemist t1_iqya3l0 wrote

Truth hurts but we are not instinctual like you believe. We like money and sex? We don’t like bug shapes? Rather we are extraordinarily impressionable social creatures, that spend an extraordinary time being nurtured under parental care.


857477458 t1_iqyca7a wrote

The data simply doesn't support your conclusion. Dating app data shows an incredibly strong preference among women for guys with money.


shitbiochemist t1_iqydpcb wrote

Which conclusion? Most women do not use dating apps btw. Check yo self


Lumivarjo t1_iqvklbo wrote

I just don't get why people care that a stranger on the internet cheated on someone.


moral_luck t1_iqvsz7c wrote

poor definition of emotional cheating. Should be called romantic cheating.


Codoro t1_iqwuya2 wrote

Emotional cheating is just having a friend ffs. Does not even compare to actually being cheated on.


iphigenia22 t1_iqzj896 wrote

It isn't referring to having friends, that's a misunderstanding of the terminology. It is referring to a person building a dynamic with one specific "friend" that must be done with secrecy to prevent damaging or ending the original relationship, and the person putting time, effort and energy into that secund relationship to the detriment of the first, there secund usually had all the hallmarks of an early stage relationship, only it has not yet moved to the nevermind of physical/sexual. Sharing emotions etc with a platonic friend you may have certain private conversations with them but you don't need to hide every interaction you have with them out our shut your vibe with them to your s/o. People aren't stupid, they know very well if they're talking to someone as a genuine friend or if they're developing a dynamic which would deceive and hurt their partner.


skytowerdreams t1_iqw6cho wrote

Because it’s harder for a man to get sex, and its harder for a woman to get love.


Brief-Turn-891 t1_iqvildr wrote

This is why women have no problem sleeping around as if it’s not a big deal ???