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IMakeMeLaugh t1_iu4d8sk wrote

Could probable have a graph of fertility vs access to contraceptives and it would be the same

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bergercreek t1_iu4kfnn wrote

Fertility doesn't have anything to do with contraceptives, unless you're claiming contraceptives affect actual fertility, which may be true. Fertility is separate from birth and pregnancy rate.

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IMakeMeLaugh t1_iu4lan4 wrote

I’m saying weekly worship attendance is a proxy for access to contraceptives.

The graph firstly defined the Y axis as fertility. I am aware of the semantics around fertility/fertility rate/birth rate, but again I was just using the OP’s example.

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magnesiumb t1_iu4ty3l wrote

I’d suspect you wouldn’t find a correlation because contraceptive access is probably similar across the board in many low income countries. While they probably have the higher fertility rate overall still, access to something says nothing about uptake. In addition years of HIV advocacy by NGOs has pushed condoms as a means of HIV prevention as well, so there are health reasons why people would use condoms that wouldn’t conflict with their religious beliefs — if there is one in these countries that’s preventing contraceptive use. So to even get the contraceptive access data you have to define what access even looks like.

You’d probably find more of a pattern mapping average incomes or rural vs urban or the education of the mothers (this almost always tightly correlated).

I don’t even trust this data since there’s no way these are accurate reports of country wide worship attendance.

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spaceshiploser t1_iu4cs0b wrote

The rate of child birth does not equal fertility rate.. this chart is flawed from the start

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FindTheWayThru t1_iu4epbz wrote

This is 100% correct. Fertility is not equal to rate of childbirth.

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Ergotron_2000 t1_iu4dlt1 wrote

Where are you getting "birth rate" from, I only see "fertility" in the chart and the source url? have not read the data sources.

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spaceshiploser t1_iu4fnsk wrote

The data states that fertility is shown as total fertility rate (TFR): the expected number of children born per woman in her child-bearing years. This is obviously flawed as you see countries such as China who have a limit on children allowed. If you think about it you’ll realize all this chart means is that religious folks in less developed and crowded countries have a lot of children.

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Alex45223 t1_iu5y8kv wrote

Niger has a high birth rate

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spaceshiploser t1_iu5z9zs wrote

You are correct. That does not mean anything about the fertility rate in other countries where it is not the norm to have more than 2-3 kids

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JustKeepItQiet t1_iu4d18s wrote

I love that it says United States (most evil) lmao

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dhuntergeo t1_iu4s2gk wrote

Going to do something BAD

Otherwise we Americans could lose our ranking

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Alex45223 t1_iu5ybo0 wrote

It's true though. Looking at how many nations America bombs without worry

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dbabbitt OP t1_iu7nup0 wrote

I threw a bone to those who use the mention of the United States as a soapbox on which to stand to trumpet their virtues. They get a little anxious when they know one of those tiny dots is their target (imagining it is probably at some extreme) and they can't find it.

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PhotographSignal6482 t1_iu4itjj wrote

I suggest you plot firtility vs love of Nicolas Cage movies in different countries.

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AntMarDar t1_iu4ecci wrote

I think the idiocracy theory is showing here.

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tezzmosis t1_iu4chxc wrote

You can't measure fertility based on how many children one chooses to have....especially if you're only having sex for procreation, and never using contraceptives... It's going to appear that fertility is higher in those who are indoctrinated, worshipping cult members, and those who are not.

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Kragkin t1_iu4cyff wrote

That's literally what fertility rate is. And regular religious attendance doesn't constitute a indoctrinated cultist.

You're showing your hand; no wonder you have an issue with the graph.

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tezzmosis t1_iu4dhqz wrote

No. This is birthrate, not a measurement of actual fertility.

Yes, religions are the exact same formula as cults, just some rituals and chanting are more socially acceptable.

Hardcore Jews have the blood sucked from baby penises by a Rabbi after circumcision. That sounds like a deranged cult practice to me...

Please explain how these kinds of devout zealots are any different that cultists?

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Kragkin t1_iu4du9e wrote

You're taking an extreme cultish practice to prove that regular religious attendance is, wholesale, indicative of cultism? And y'all accuse us of circular reasoning..

How do you measure fertility rate then? What is fertility rate?

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tezzmosis t1_iu4etko wrote

Devoutly religious in any religion are no different than cult members in their abiding of such archaic and barbaric practices.

If you support the blood being sucked from a baby's freshly circumcised penis...

If you support the marriage between minors and grown men...

If you support the outlaw of divorce and contraceptives...

You might be devoutly religious in one of the modern day religions accepted my many and strictly followed by most of their members....

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Kragkin t1_iu4h8l0 wrote

This could be said about many political ideologies. Is holding a political ideology inherently extremist now?

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tezzmosis t1_iu4hkg7 wrote

The more devout, the more cult level of obedience you have, and more likelihood to submit to archaic religious practices, like allowing an old man to suck the blood from a freshly circumcised baby penis...

Sounds like some deranged blood cult to me. If you told me it was Jewish, I'd say you were insane...but that's reality and it's still being practiced by extremely devout Jewish people today.

As for politics, they're all driven by greed, and they're all bought, traded and sold by corporate entities... democracy is an illusion.

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Kragkin t1_iu4j93p wrote

I agree with you on politics. But why do you keep mentioning devout Jewish practices like I haven't understood that? You're pushing this one extreme example to claim religious belief is inherently cultish. You're unfairly extrapolating thr extreme to the common.

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tezzmosis t1_iu4llfn wrote

The graph implies the more religiously devout, and the more you worship whatever you've chose to devout your life to, the more "fertile". Graph is mis-labeled and should say birthrate. Can't really assess a woman's fertility without taking samples.

Some of these religions probably wouldn't even allow for that kind of invasion for testing, especially the most devout and trusting of what they've been indoctrinated to believe.

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Kragkin t1_iu4mt2h wrote

Fertility rate is widely understood as children/woman, no?

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dam_iguess t1_iu4djv0 wrote

Who hurt you?

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tezzmosis t1_iu4dqzx wrote

You gotta be real hurt if you're confusing the difference between birthrate and fertility, and basing it on the likelihood of adhering to archaic religious practices, like sucking the blood from a baby penis after circumcision....

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Unlucky_keystroke t1_iu4ez4v wrote

Calling out the stupidity of religion means they were hurt? I guess having critical thinking skills hurts...

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Kragkin t1_iu4clih wrote

Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD, the fruit of the womb a reward. –Psalm 127:3 ESV

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Misteral_Editorial t1_iu4pku4 wrote

It's almost like most religions include restrictive policies on sex health and urge followers to procreate.

Who didn't know that?

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upsidedownpooper t1_iu83vzd wrote

Too bad it doesn't say birth rate and church attendance. It could have neen a good graph. Now it's just misleading.

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amanamongbotss t1_iu4fcvx wrote

What is the point of this?

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dbabbitt OP t1_iu9e7ma wrote

Watifalthist claims in his Is China the Next World Power? video that urban-ism and atheism are "the two worst predictors for sustainable birthrate". He shows two plots, side by side, of "Urbanisation and Fertility" and "Weekly Worship vs. Fertility". The second one mentions its source as John Mueller, Redeeming Economics (2014): 239. I wanted to see if I could reproduce it.

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goldenstar365 t1_iu4qae9 wrote

R^2 =0.6 is an pretty weak correlation, right? Or am I missing something?

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magnesiumb t1_iu4votm wrote

Right? I doubt the Pew data for the worship numbers is even accurate, too, but even if we take it as if it is, 0.6 isn’t convincing.

It’s always going to be a function of mother’s education and mode of income generation (agriculture, for instance).

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Alex45223 t1_iu5y4ut wrote

I'd say Bosnians are pretty devout.

Niger-ians only have a high fertility rate because all African populations have high fertility.

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t968rs t1_iu6xxx7 wrote

you’re confusing fertility with fecundity. secondly, this isn’t beautiful. last, this post smells like Handmaids

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dallas50000 t1_iu6u317 wrote

US most evil? This post was by some who is prejudiced against good and in favor of evil. (Accurate and true comment.)

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dbabbitt OP t1_iu4cci8 wrote

The worship data is from https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2018/06/12094011/Appendix-B.pdf and the fertility data is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate . The jupyter notebook can be seen at https://github.com/dbabbitt/StatsByCountry/blob/master/ipynb/Weekly%20Worship%20vs%20Fertility%20Rate.ipynb .

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TeamAquaThrowaway t1_iu4gwk0 wrote

i notice that on your github there many files (soup, lists, and charts in the first block, and many more in the subsequent blocks) which are listed as required to be included, but are not available, so it is not possible to reproduce your work.

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dbabbitt OP t1_iu7m5f1 wrote

How are they not available? Have you cloned the repository and found them missing from your local copy?

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tezzmosis t1_iu4ed66 wrote

The word worship implies cult status. The concept of worshipping and abiding by some otherworldly god is old and tired.

If I can beat my wife and kids and be absolved of my sins and gain entry into some make believe afterlife theme park...

If I can watch an old man such the blood from my sons penis after mutilating it...

If I can be a Priest, molest children, and be moved to another church in a different district and have my records and history a secret....

I might be a devoutly religious member of society that attends regular meetings to worship an imaginaty friend for adults..

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