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Spring-Dance t1_ivmm26v wrote

Reply to comment by meme_slave_ in More people are employed in clean energy than in fossil fuels by kickresume

It's fueled by government subsidies so it completely depends on if subsidies are increased and will completely collapse if removed

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cromstantinople t1_ivnj1s3 wrote

‘Fossil Fuels Received $5.9 Trillion In Subsidies in 2020, Report Finds’

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds

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Uncle00Buck t1_ivonltg wrote

According to the article, the lion's share is environmental impact (estimated), such as a carbon tax that no one pays. That is not a subsidy.

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cromstantinople t1_ivpsuz4 wrote

I disagree since it's usually taxpayer-funded projects that have to deal with that impact. We all pay a carbon tax in terms of air quality and premature deaths. The idea being that externalized costs aren't taken into consideration and they most certainly should. The price of fossil fuels are kept low because they externalize cost in addition to getting billions a year in direct government subsidies.

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Uncle00Buck t1_ivr4e5r wrote

Are we discussing the definition of subsidy or what you think is right? There are substantial societal benefits to fossil fuels as well as negative environmental impact. Do we subtract that portion? Defining value and burden are not black and white. I'm also not in favor of poor folks having to pay more for gas when it represents a chunk of their income. The best solution is that no one should get subsidies and let the market push ripe alternative energy technology.

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cromstantinople t1_ivrf2i3 wrote

Subsidy, n: a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.

From the IMF report: "Underpricing fossil fuels not only undermines domestic and global environmental objectives but is a highly inefficient policy for helping low- income households2 and has a sizable fiscal cost—too little revenue is raised from fuel taxes, implying other taxes or government deficits must be higher or public spending lower."

The subsidy is that we, as taxpayers and breathers of air, are paying is in higher taxes or lower spending elsewhere or by increased debt/deficits. So, because their costs are externalized, the price of the commodity is kept low thereby forcing governments to pay those costs.

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_11_ t1_ivnpc57 wrote

I mean. Okay. So is U.S. agriculture. Nobody ever brings that up. Roughly 20% of net farm income is due to government subsidies and our current farming model will completely collapse if they're removed.

Subsidies are used as a way to encourage industries to thrive despite low initial or ongoing profit margins in sectors that are important to the population at large. They're not inherently bad and their use isn't an indicator of worthiness or lack thereof.

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DirectDire t1_ivnr61k wrote

What if you ignore corn, corn is such bullshit its not good for making fuel and corn syrup is just used in junk food. Corn is a huge scam in the US, heavily subsidized but no real benefit to society. Eating corn normally is fine.

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InspectorG-007 t1_ivmnwtn wrote

Government could do that for the jobs numbers. And the companies receiving said subsidies likely won't have to produce much in return.

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xelIent t1_ivnm6cy wrote

We will collapse if we keep relying on fossil fuels though

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