US States, Police Training v Shootings/Violent Crime (per million) [OC]Submitted by tommytornado t3_ywowl8 in dataisbeautiful
Dmoored4 t1_iwkx4uo wrote
Isn’t the real problem unjustified shootings? As unfortunate as it is, if the bad guys are starting gunfights I want the cops to engage them effectively. This could be difficult because shootings that should not have happen still get justified, but I bet there would still be a major correlation. I’m thinking a chart which shows the hours of training on the X, and the ratio of unjustified to total shootings on the Y.
tommytornado OP t1_iwkzupf wrote
If someone could source that data it could easily be done but I suspect the data isn't readily available on a state level.
mceric01 t1_iwljr4p wrote
It’s because there are hardly any unjustified police shootings. They’re few and far between despite 60,000,000 police - citizen contacts per year
somethingwithbacon t1_iwlumm7 wrote
Police killed over 1,000 people in 2021. Almost 3/day, at a rate far higher than any other highly developed nation.
thestereo300 t1_iwlvzwr wrote
No other nation is as armed. So that stat is a bit moot.
somethingwithbacon t1_iwlxko7 wrote
The only states approaching 50% ownership are the Dakotas and West Virginia. Most of America’s guns are represented by gun nuts owning multiple. Regardless, gun ownership in the US is 3 times higher than ownership in Norway, yet the rate of fatal shootings by police in the US is 15 times higher. Cops are poorly trained in this country and we are far too accepting of cops killing citizens.
AftyOfTheUK t1_iwm2z0u wrote
>The only states approaching 50% ownership are the Dakotas and West Virginia. Most of America’s guns are represented by gun nuts owning multiple.
I'm not sure why legal gun ownership rates have much bearing on this? If the people using guns for violent crime do not legally own them, why would we care in the about legal gun ownerships rates?
somethingwithbacon t1_iwm4op6 wrote
So your claim is that 80% of guns are owned illegally, and these guns account for all crime? They claimed the disproportionate deaths are due to rate of gun ownership. They’re not.
AftyOfTheUK t1_iwmi6tl wrote
>So your claim is that 80% of guns are owned illegally
Please quote me when you're attempting to voice my claims. I never claimed that.
thestereo300 t1_iwma6kf wrote
This country is 1000% more violent than Norway bruh.
Why? Who knows but it’s relevant as hell to this data.
Not only do Americans HAVE guns…. We use them. It’s a mix of super armed and super violent culture compared to other western countries.
Therefore you can’t trot out a simplistic comparison between our police and Norway’s without controlling for many more dangerous situations an American cop is going to see vs a Norwegian cop.
AftyOfTheUK t1_iwm2te4 wrote
>Police killed over 1,000 people in 2021. Almost 3/day, at a rate far higher than any other highly developed nation.
How does that have any bearing on how many unjustified shootings there are?
Given a raw number (1000) without context means nothing. If 999 of them are justified, that's a pretty good rate.
somethingwithbacon t1_iwm3xvz wrote
17% are unarmed, so start there.
AftyOfTheUK t1_iwmiaf3 wrote
>17% are unarmed, so start there.
I'm very interest to read the data behind this. Does "unarmed" mean did not have a firearm, or did not have a weapon of any kind? Or were not being violent?
somethingwithbacon t1_iwmk93q wrote
It means unarmed. In this case, a comparison between coroner reports, police reports, and death certificates. Source.
Sufficient-Cup4180 t1_iwocdny wrote
And they were mostly justified. You forgot that point.
somethingwithbacon t1_iwoci7j wrote
Legally justified and morally justified are not the same thing.
Sufficient-Cup4180 t1_iwodcfu wrote
Cool. I don’t care much about what you think is morally okay. I see a skewed reality on Reddit every day. Justified is what I’ll go off of. Thanks.
somethingwithbacon t1_iwoesci wrote
When the cost is a human life, 1/6 is an unacceptable failure rate. But pretend you’re on some moral high ground here.
Sufficient-Cup4180 t1_iwojvux wrote
I am not pretending on any high ground. Let’s say all 170 were not justified. That’s less than .01% of all LE contacts. This isn’t the epidemic you think it is.
UnderdogRising t1_iwogw14 wrote
The justified number isn't the real number. The legal system and all. It doesn't get it right every time. 17% unarmed. Some clearly unjustified cases getting deemed "justified" by courts.
To really know this you would have to somehow calculate the bias the justice system has towards its own enforcement.
Vesemir668 t1_iwls1ad wrote
Oh oh this will be unpopular on reddit.
Level3Kobold t1_iwmnebd wrote
Police from other nations are able to do their job without killing people.
Police from America kill many people.
The discrepancy is not proportional to gun ownership.
If you believe that the vast majority of those killings are justified, then what - in your opinion - makes Americans so much more deserving of death compared to other nationalities?
mceric01 t1_iwmntbw wrote
The discrepancy is proportionate to the homicide rate and levels. How often are police killed in other developed major countries that you’re comparing police killings?
Level3Kobold t1_iwmqb8g wrote
>The discrepancy is proportionate to the homicide rate and levels
Can you provide a source for this claim?
mceric01 t1_iwnuxv9 wrote
Well Germany averages 250-350 homicides per year and the UK averages 500-600. Are we trying to compare what the police in the US have to deal with as opposed to those countries where the homicide is more than 20 times lower?
Outrageous_Effect_24 t1_iwms52s wrote
Since every police killing is by definition a homicide, can you think of a way that police killings would not be proportional to the homicide rate?
jimtoberfest t1_iwn6crh wrote
Pretty sure there hundreds of millions of police interactions in the US every year.
200,000,000 interactions / 650,000 officers = 462 interactions per officer / 365 days = .8 interactions per day; seems plausible.
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