US States, Police Training v Shootings/Violent Crime (per million) [OC]Submitted by tommytornado t3_ywowl8 in dataisbeautiful
somethingwithbacon t1_iwlumm7 wrote
Reply to comment by mceric01 in US States, Police Training v Shootings/Violent Crime (per million) [OC] by tommytornado
Police killed over 1,000 people in 2021. Almost 3/day, at a rate far higher than any other highly developed nation.
thestereo300 t1_iwlvzwr wrote
No other nation is as armed. So that stat is a bit moot.
somethingwithbacon t1_iwlxko7 wrote
The only states approaching 50% ownership are the Dakotas and West Virginia. Most of America’s guns are represented by gun nuts owning multiple. Regardless, gun ownership in the US is 3 times higher than ownership in Norway, yet the rate of fatal shootings by police in the US is 15 times higher. Cops are poorly trained in this country and we are far too accepting of cops killing citizens.
AftyOfTheUK t1_iwm2z0u wrote
>The only states approaching 50% ownership are the Dakotas and West Virginia. Most of America’s guns are represented by gun nuts owning multiple.
I'm not sure why legal gun ownership rates have much bearing on this? If the people using guns for violent crime do not legally own them, why would we care in the about legal gun ownerships rates?
somethingwithbacon t1_iwm4op6 wrote
So your claim is that 80% of guns are owned illegally, and these guns account for all crime? They claimed the disproportionate deaths are due to rate of gun ownership. They’re not.
AftyOfTheUK t1_iwmi6tl wrote
>So your claim is that 80% of guns are owned illegally
Please quote me when you're attempting to voice my claims. I never claimed that.
thestereo300 t1_iwma6kf wrote
This country is 1000% more violent than Norway bruh.
Why? Who knows but it’s relevant as hell to this data.
Not only do Americans HAVE guns…. We use them. It’s a mix of super armed and super violent culture compared to other western countries.
Therefore you can’t trot out a simplistic comparison between our police and Norway’s without controlling for many more dangerous situations an American cop is going to see vs a Norwegian cop.
AftyOfTheUK t1_iwm2te4 wrote
>Police killed over 1,000 people in 2021. Almost 3/day, at a rate far higher than any other highly developed nation.
How does that have any bearing on how many unjustified shootings there are?
Given a raw number (1000) without context means nothing. If 999 of them are justified, that's a pretty good rate.
somethingwithbacon t1_iwm3xvz wrote
17% are unarmed, so start there.
AftyOfTheUK t1_iwmiaf3 wrote
>17% are unarmed, so start there.
I'm very interest to read the data behind this. Does "unarmed" mean did not have a firearm, or did not have a weapon of any kind? Or were not being violent?
somethingwithbacon t1_iwmk93q wrote
It means unarmed. In this case, a comparison between coroner reports, police reports, and death certificates. Source.
Sufficient-Cup4180 t1_iwocdny wrote
And they were mostly justified. You forgot that point.
somethingwithbacon t1_iwoci7j wrote
Legally justified and morally justified are not the same thing.
Sufficient-Cup4180 t1_iwodcfu wrote
Cool. I don’t care much about what you think is morally okay. I see a skewed reality on Reddit every day. Justified is what I’ll go off of. Thanks.
somethingwithbacon t1_iwoesci wrote
When the cost is a human life, 1/6 is an unacceptable failure rate. But pretend you’re on some moral high ground here.
Sufficient-Cup4180 t1_iwojvux wrote
I am not pretending on any high ground. Let’s say all 170 were not justified. That’s less than .01% of all LE contacts. This isn’t the epidemic you think it is.
UnderdogRising t1_iwogw14 wrote
The justified number isn't the real number. The legal system and all. It doesn't get it right every time. 17% unarmed. Some clearly unjustified cases getting deemed "justified" by courts.
To really know this you would have to somehow calculate the bias the justice system has towards its own enforcement.
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