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groovycoyote t1_j48r97o wrote

Do not use a line graph for categorical data.

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Exatraz t1_j4cgsde wrote

Seriously. My first thought was "oh wow, the number is going down with time. I wonder why. " then I re-read the X axis

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j48yvkt wrote

Are you talking about the X axis (countries)?

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Tryagainbatman t1_j498qhv wrote

Yes. The line in between the countries means nothing.

This graph says “halfway between Chile and Spain there are 120 bands per million inhabitants”, which is nonsensical.

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Rin-Tohsaka-is-hot t1_j4ajdfi wrote

No, that's actually a hotspot for Atlantic Aqua-Core Metal. Island in the Atlantic directly between Spain and Chile.

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Tryagainbatman t1_j4arx28 wrote

Ha.

The newt play the flute, The carp play the harp, The plaice play the bass, And they soundin' sharp. The bass play the brass, The chub play the tub, The fluke is the duke of soul!

The ray he can play, The lings on the strings, The trout rockin' out, The blackfish she sings. The smelt and the sprat, They know where it's at, And oh that blowfish blow!

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bwdmn t1_j4ahomx wrote

The line suggests progression. Before reading the description of the x axis I assumed that it was time so I thought heavy metal bands are dying out.

Some recommend to only use line graphs when the x-axis has a continuous value.

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Lfc-96 t1_j49987y wrote

If it’s not a time series, never use a line chart. r/dataisnotbeautiful

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Xehanz t1_j49vvkv wrote

It doesn't NEED to be a time series. But for general purposes, yeah.

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jakubkonecki t1_j48ipfl wrote

I would prefer the chart series to be swapped. Bars should descend and line chart could go up and down.

Bars are more solid and line is more agile - therefore my brain cannot easily comprehend the bars all over the place.

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j48yksm wrote

i've passed several hours thinking about it in the past, but finally i decided that the "continuity" of the line (orange in this case) is more "appropriate" to render the MAIN METRIC on the graph. For this reason i put it so.

In other words, i would say the opposite to your comment: the orange line stands out above the "chaotic" bars, so it helps to focus first on the orange metric (in this case "bands/unhabitant".

Where i still have doubts is about where to put each Y axis. Which at left and which at right. I think that maybe in this graph i did it wrong... it probably would be better put the MAIN METRIC on the LEFT Y axis.

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jakubkonecki t1_j4an9ws wrote

The line didn't "stand out" for me, especially since the Y axis is on the right hand side. I read from left to right, so I first noticed the values for the bars.

Also, country labels are much closer to the bars than the line, so when I started reading country names from left to right I was confused why they are not in order: neither alphabetical nor according to the primary Y axis (left hand side).

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Acid_Monster t1_j4aqy5k wrote

There’s nothing beautiful about this data whatsoever ever.

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kurtpropan666 t1_j4c0gy8 wrote

Yeah I was thinking this was showing the decline of metal and got sad

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Draugtaur t1_j48ewyr wrote

maybe pie or some other chart would be better? this seems like there's a natural temporal progression from Chile to Dominicana

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j48fbud wrote

Yeah, maybe you're right... But a PIE graphic with 21 pieces... would be very poorly redeable, wouldn't it?

Also, i have interest to show the other metric: total band number.

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Draugtaur t1_j48g96z wrote

Fair. Maybe just drop the trend line then? Because this just seems like metal bands are dying out on a Chile-Dominicana time scale :D

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triste_seller t1_j498mj5 wrote

the classic Chile -Dominicana scale, for metal band studies

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4905af wrote

Yep. Maybe would it better to use only "LONELY points" instead of a "line"? Are you meaning that?

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anonkitty2 t1_j49evbm wrote

I am in favor. Don't show a connection where there is no connection.

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j48zyla wrote

I think that another user ( u/groovycoyote ) has commented the same thing but with another words: not to use LINE GRAPH for CATEGORICAL DATA (list of countries on X axis).

Yep. I understand the point of you. But help me please to see the difference with a "double bar per country" graphic in this case (one bar for metric A, one bar for metric B). Wouldn't be this bar graph "less redeable". Even, wouldn't it seems that first bar is "before" and second bar is "after", just speaking about time.

However, when i use bars for "number of total bands" and dot-line for "bands per unhabitant", i think that i'm making clear that both are 2 different METRICS, instead of 2 different VALUES of the the same country (probably in different times).

Do you understand me?

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anonkitty2 t1_j49f86g wrote

Yes. I understand. But I think bars and lonely points would be better for "total bands" and "bands per capita."

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creatinavirtual t1_j4a6iux wrote

Just stack two bar plots one on top of the other, with the shared x axis. In fact i would add a third plot which would be the ratio between the two, and so we could see for instance that mexico has a huge metal band proportion.

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lazyant t1_j49m5sm wrote

Andorrans (official language is Catalan) may have an issue being called Spanish speaking country.

Anyways, charts follows more or less that the richer the country, the more tendency to more heavy metal bands. In Europe is the Nordic countries.

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4hf4eq wrote

Yes, i know: Andorra, in fact, is the unique country in the world which official language is catalan, but also spanish and french, obviously because their geographical position. I perfectly know tha country, i lived for 40 years in Barcelona (2h by car) and i've family living there.

But in the daily day, spanish is equally spoken than catalan, and french in a third place. Anyway, i'm quite sure that ALL (100%) Andorra born citizens (not "imported") speak spanish. Nevertheless, nobody remember to include Andorra as an "spanish-speaking" country.

I've not included them for other statistical graphs, specially international rankings because usually i only consider countries with a one million population. But in this case, the relevant metric was "bands per capita", so it had interest to know that although Andorra has just less than 80k citizens, they have 6 metal bands !! only Metal !! This was a great surprise for me... enough to be included here 😅

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kerver2 t1_j490hd2 wrote

I like that you both show the amount of bands and the 'concentration' of bands per country. Like the other comments said, the chart doesn't read intuitively and it seems like something is off...I'm just not sure how to improve it (not really helping, I know). I like the red and black background, but the data colors (blue and orange) don't really work well with the background in my opinion. Matching the label colors of the y-axis to the data label is a neat trick to quickly see what goes with what. I will use that too from now on!

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j491j0z wrote

Hehehe, the next graph i will try to apply something like a "dark solarized palette" 😁 i'm in love of this palette.

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kerver2 t1_j493zmv wrote

After further consideration I think it's the background that makes picking a good color for your data bars/lines. The y-axis data labels are in the black part, and the data is in the red part. So you need 2 colors that contrast on both black and red...now that's a challenge. Maybe if you pull back the vignette so there is more red, you can choose collors that contrast well to red. Making the red a bit less bright would also make it easier for your data colors to pop. You can use an online tools to help you pick colors (color contrast checker, lookup color themes for websites etc.).

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4hg82k wrote

I completely agree. The color gradient so contrasted (red-black) is the problem and the challenge. Yeah.

I take note. In the future: the gradients must be quite less contrast. In only was thinking in "dark and blood", hahaha, and for this reason i used this "nice" gradient. But you're right that it put it quite more difficult to choose the plot colors!

Thanks! 😊

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j491a4g wrote

Thanks man. You know it: every little detail in a graphic like this has taken several minutes (sometimes quite minutes) to decide the best choice 😅 but always someone else saying the graph shows up to make you see you could have done better.

About your comments, i certainly tested different colors for the blue bars and the orange line. I also don't like very much my final result in this sense. But it was my best result after 10 minutes of make a dozen tries 😔

Anyway, this is a great community to share and get excellent feedback. Sure. Thanks!

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kerver2 t1_j4931za wrote

This community has given me great inspiration to create better looking graphs. It takes some time to consider things like color, but it makes the graphs som much more appealing.

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Picksologic t1_j4aq1bd wrote

I would like to see the graph as two colored columns next to each other. It would make it easier to understand. I would also add a legend to make it even clearer. I am just starting to learn how to use Excel graphing function so I can't demonstrate it.

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MoksMarx t1_j4apl6m wrote

How is this ordered for the line to be necessary...

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Flowmaster93 t1_j4bq6se wrote

In other words, the more money the more metal...

#One could say... precious metals???

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Chimpville t1_j49ih2t wrote

This feels like it should be a scatter plot, and adjusted by population. Maybe bubble graph where bubble size is population.

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4hhsze wrote

Yeahh... good idea! I think that i considered it when deciding how to plot it, but i think that it's not possible in LibreOffice Calc to do a "dot cloud" graph or even a "bubble graph".

This is the reason why i'm learning since a couple of weeks ago to use RStudio 😅 ...to be able ASAP to do more "cool" (appropiate?) graphs. Yeah.

But i appreciate your suggestion: "bubble graph" nobody else has suggested.

Certainly 2 bar is not appropiate, i think so, because both metrics are "not comparable": one is "number of bands" the other one is "bands per capita".

Thanks!

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Xehanz t1_j49w1nz wrote

No need. Double bar chart is enough.

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Dapanji206 t1_j4a20ez wrote

Doubt anyone here knows Transmetal

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4hkllp wrote

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Transmetal/1770

(mexico, 1987-present) 😎

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4hkv3n wrote

Wooww... and they continue producing new albums (2022!). I'm in love about this kind of passion for music.

Note: i didn't know it. I'm in Estado de Sonora. saludos bro.

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GrendaGrendinator t1_j4b5cgz wrote

Assuming I'm reading this correctly; why not show metal bands/total bands? Metal bands per 1mil capita shows metal affluence among the general population but not how popular that music is compared to other genres. It partially reflects bands of any genre per capita in addition to metal popularity without isolating either. Total bands per country is also silly info since that chart reflects population.

A country of 100k with 100 metal bands is going to have 1k metal bands per mil which is really high, but if they also have 9900 other bands then that's only 1% metal bands and metal probably isn't that popular there.

A country like Mexico with 130 million people in it is also very obviously going to fucking stomp a small country like Costa Rica and their 5 million people into the ground in terms of total number of bands if they have even slightly comparable amounts of interest in metal per capita.

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metalstats t1_j4dgii7 wrote

I like the way you think. The problem is that metal band counts are easy to get from metal archives, but the same resource does not exist for any other genre. Or at least not easily. From what I've seen, what you say is indeed the case. Countries with high metal/capita will also have high music/capita in genre. Genre specific per Capita has a significant cofounder in GDP.

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4hj5tx wrote

Well, being talking about SPANISH-speaking countries, most of them prefer a lot salsa, cumbia, merengue, bachata and other "latin rhytms" than "metal music"... So i am not so sure that there is some kind of correlation between "number of metal bands" with other GDP or financial or even development or cultural variables.

I would say that this data simply show us in which countries there are preference to Heavy Metal, compared with other countries in the "spanish-language cultural sphere". Without any other conclusion or interest. Do you not agree with this statement?

Anyway, u/metalstats is right: is very easy to have quite exact stats about metal bands thanks to the incredible free project of https://www.metal-archives.com/ but it is quite difficult to get the same info regarding other musical genres. At least i don't know where to get it.

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4hjj8d wrote

But retriving the suggestion of u/GrendaGrendinator ... it would be great to get information about any other musical genre(s) and make a graph comparing it with metal 😁 yeah!

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InternationalBand494 t1_j4bm7u2 wrote

Andorra hasn’t a single band? Not one? Not 4 dudes really high in a garage just jamming?

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4hk9po wrote

https://www.metal-archives.com/lists/AD

  • Among the Mist (Power Metal)
  • De Veneficas Inferi (Black Metal/Ambient)
  • Dilaghran (Black Metal, Dungeon Synth)
  • In Eclipse (Melodic Death/Groove Metal)
  • Nami (Progressive Death Metal)
  • Persefone (Progressive/Melodic Death Metal)

Note: the first one was splitted-up the 5th is "in pause". This directory of metal bands contain all the active and not active bands. 😅

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siandresi t1_j4coqfd wrote

Seems like there’s an inverse relations between heavy metal and reggaeton

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razberry_lemonade t1_j4du82k wrote

Another thing that bothers me is that you dated it Jan ‘2023 but the apostrophe is unnecessary there. You would only need it if you’re truncating the first two digits ie ‘23

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Merciless972 t1_j49jxcj wrote

There was a metal band in Mexico that split apart and joined other bands. Their singer plays guitar for static x

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Joeclu t1_j4a76s0 wrote

Not surprised about Spain. Esquirla is fantastic if you give them a listen.

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Quant2011 t1_j4au721 wrote

wow, thats much more important than jab side effects charts!!!

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kaizerdouken t1_j4bfdkw wrote

The Colombian one is strangely surprising

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[deleted] t1_j4cd8uh wrote

Why? You think that, because we are Colombian, we can't enjoy or be good at playing modern styles like rock, metal? We don't all live in huts. These foreigners...

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4hdrgd wrote

Hello u/Mental-Ad-40. Good example, the one you put in a comment in this discussion (very very much below, for this reason i put this comment here, above). You remember us that "line graphs" are used not only with "time" in the "x axis", with this good example:

https://i.imgur.com/mhkjW3W.jpg

I'm the author of this published graph of metal bands. Certainly i had never heard about this association with "line graph" and "time". But i recognize that i'm a perfect newbie doing statistical graphs, so i consider a good learning for me all the good comments here 😅

Said this, i appreciate your line chart with temperature-pression, because certainly it's a good counter-argument on that supposed strong link between "line graphs" and "time X axis".

- - - - -

My unique concern now is how to represent in the future this kind of data without using LINES. I don't like to put 2 bars for each country, because it usually connotes that both bars are corresponding to the same "metric" or same "nature". For example:

bar 1: number of metal bands
bar 2: number of pop bands

But in my case bot metrics are of very **different nature**: they are **not comparable**. One es number of things, and the other is number of things per capita ! Do you understand me?

Someone has any good answer for this kind of data to be rendered in the same graph?

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Picksologic t1_j4pfoca wrote

I was very interested in your chart because it gave me a chance to think about how I would present it based on some of the feedback you got. Here is my version presented according to the three parameters.

https://postimg.cc/vgR1CqnH

https://postimg.cc/2bzqzq0P

https://postimg.cc/4nydBRqb

Edit: when I looked up the data I came up with slightly different numbers than you.

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UsandoFXOS OP t1_j4r4inc wrote

Wooowww, all 3 are wonderful!! 🤩

Maybe the first or the second one are the best for me. But you really were able to include 3 metrics in the same graph... i love it.

I realize now that it would be a good idea to also share my exact NUMBERS used to build a graph. In this case you had saved time getting the values for each country 😅

Thanks master! Which software did you used?

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Picksologic t1_j4r7e05 wrote

Thanks for your compliments, but I am a beginner at making graphs and I learned a lot from making this. I used Excel. I was just lucky that the right side axis label works for both the population in millions and the number of bands.

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Mental-Ad-40 t1_j4maa3p wrote

to be honest, I think the difficulty of correctly representing this data comes from trying to plot two conflicting perspectives on the same graph. I think you should have just included either or. Like you could put bands per million in bars, then just country population if you wanted to include demographics too. Or if the absolute number of bands was the important bit, include just that. If you really want to show both, use two separate graphs to allow the reader to see the perspectives separately, the same way they should think about them.

But if you must include both of these data points exactly as is and in a single graph, you should probably use a scatter plot.

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Gloomy_Possession-69 t1_j49ekcm wrote

In addition to other comments, this would be much more interesting if it was per capita I think

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anonkitty2 t1_j4aeo0t wrote

Wouldn't that be what "bands per inhabitant" is?

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Gloomy_Possession-69 t1_j4bfo3v wrote

Oh true. This graph was so bizarre in formatting and chart type and ugly and improperly titled I literally went cross eyed and missed that axis label lol

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Maguncia t1_j4aj6ec wrote

R-squared with GDP per capita must be pretty high. But Dominicans really don't like metal, I guess.

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matthen10 t1_j4amlrj wrote

53 million Spanish speakers in the USA may be worth putting on this list...

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Razatiger t1_j49uywx wrote

Theres a correlation here, the majority white/European spanish speaking countries like metal music more, which is of no surprise to anyone really.

Colombia is the biggest outlier on this list imo.

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