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r2k-in-the-vortex t1_j56t1ri wrote

Reply to comment by tjeulink in A study of lights at night suggests dictators lie about economic growth by im11btw

If economic growth just plain looked different in different places then you would expect the estimate to err on the other side in some cases. There is not a single case in that chart to estimate greater economic growth than officially claimed, all the cases where there is discrepancy, the official figures try to claim more economic growth.

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Northstar1989 t1_j59efdr wrote

You never considered that there are different types of economic growth that generate different amounts of light, did you?

Dictatorships and Totalitarian regimes famously favor Heavy Industry over Light Industry, for instance. A boom in the steel industry does NOT lead to as much expansion in lighting as a boom in home construction and shopping malls to sell an expanded supply of consumer appliances.

This whole argument by the Economist is just plain nonsense, designed to advantage the types of economic growth favored in Western countries.

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tjeulink t1_j56w8ca wrote

why would you expect that? maybe something about dictatorships just causes less lights in their economy than in "free"/"western" whatever countries.

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nekomoo t1_j57375d wrote

Maybe dictatorships are more environmentally conscious than democracies, so use fewer lights?

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tjeulink t1_j5766n4 wrote

or they have more strict rules about resource usage. or they have strict rules about advertising. or they have strict rules about when you're allowed to be outside. or those economic bennefits barely come back to most people and are solidated in institutions.

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jeffcox911 t1_j578dkw wrote

all of them? You're suggesting that every last one of them has the same type of strict rules? That completely beggars belief. Surely it's most likely that countries known for being corrupt and putting out propaganda...put out propaganda?

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tjeulink t1_j579n1e wrote

i'm not suggesting that. they where examples of other factors that influence light pollution.

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Northstar1989 t1_j59erlj wrote

Totalitarian states almost universally favor Heavy Industry over Light Industry, Agriculture and dense tenements over suburban sprawl, and care very little for complaints the streets aren't lit well enough when they'd rather invest in their military instead.

There are systematic differences in the types of growth found in Democratic vs. Totalitarian regimes. I am not saying Totalitarian regimes don't lie (they most certainly do), but this (levels of light pollution as seen from space) is an absolutely nonsense measure of economic growth that has been used by the West for decades now to claim that countries with more Totalitarian governments are poorer than they really are (the reality is much worse: they are better off than portrayed, but the ruling class of Totalitarian regimes often steal immense amounts for themselves such that the economic growth doesn't benefit ordinary people...)

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