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slutshaa t1_j5izg5a wrote

but that generalization isn't true? men aren't more suited to engineering roles than women are

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5irSkellington t1_j5j0ltj wrote

All evidence points to the fact that is in fact the case though. Not something we have to be happy about , but it's the truth

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FrogOfDreams t1_j5jbeq7 wrote

No, the evidence is that men are ON AVERAGE more likely to be better in tech. And as long as your hiring process isn't bogus, a woman with the same qualifications is just as good as a man because she hot THE SAME QUALIFICATIONS

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5irSkellington t1_j5jlx4j wrote

I agree though, the problem is usually interest and not capability

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camxus t1_j5j4nhs wrote

sorry. u can’t blame my EE class having 6:300 f/m ratio on the patriarchy. It’s highkey an insult to the females who actually end up going thru it. It has less to do with gender and more with sex. The girls who were in my class were verrrry obviously different to say female artist friends of mine. Their brains just work differently.

it just doesn’t work that way. Females and Males generally have different abilities and aptitudes and that’s fine. Women need to stop trying to be men and tap into the skills that make them special. Same goes for men

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DevinCauley-Towns t1_j5j8fyr wrote

Most evidence actually suggests that girls choose to go into certain STEM roles at lower rates than men for a variety of reasons, most of which are NOT inherently biological and the “biological” reasons don’t present until much later in life after the other factors could already skew the results. Here are some excerpts from a meta analysis conducted on the topic.

> Successful careers in math and science require many types of cognitive abilities. Females tend to excel in verbal abilities, with large differences between females and males found when assessments include writing samples. High-level achievement in science and math requires the ability to communicate effectively and comprehend abstract ideas, so the female advantage in writing should be helpful in all academic domains. Males outperform females on most measures of visuospatial abilities, which have been implicated as contributing to sex differences on standardized exams in mathematics and science.

There are differences in performance between men and women for certain areas, though being a good SWE or other technical role requires a variety of skills, men generally perform better at one type and women generally perform better another. Anecdotally, as someone working in tech I find my female co-workers to be more organized and have better communication skills that make them easier to work with and often perform quality work more consistently.

> A wide range of sociocultural forces contribute to sex differences in mathematics and science achievement and ability—including the effects of family, neighborhood, peer, and school influences; training and experience; and cultural practices. We conclude that early experience, biological factors, educational policy, and cultural context affect the number of women and men who pursue advanced study in science and math and that these effects add and interact in complex ways. There are no single or simple answers to the complex questions about sex differences in science and mathematics.

If you read the above, 3 of the 4 categories contributing to the differences in STEM achievement are unrelated to biology. Meaning these differences are NOT generally “natural” as you incorrectly suggested. Early experience, such as being told you don’t have the ability to pursue STEM due to your “natural abilities” is one such influence that reduces performance and drives women away from the field. So literally the behaviour you’re exhibiting is a contributing factor to why your program has so many men and few women. Next time, stop being an ass and do some research before parroting harmful sexist ideas that are clearly NOT supported by the literature, or at very least don’t make up the majority of differences.

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camxus t1_j5jct56 wrote

i appreciate u doing research and i agree. u literally repeated my point. “NATURALLY” has nothing to do with biological in my prev context. i repeatedly already said natural abilities in context to what skills people have tendencies for be it biological, cultural, societal doesnt matter.

for lost engineering positions while communication is a part of the job it isn’t the most important part. female PMs are better than males for instance. There is space for women leads in tech. My point is that a majority of women wouldn’t do well in the Engineering department due to reasons you highlighted above

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camxus t1_j5jd8ts wrote

i appreciate u doing research and i agree. u literally repeated my point. “NATURALLY” has nothing to do with biological in my prev context. i repeatedly already said natural abilities in context to what skills people have tendencies for be it biological, cultural, societal doesnt matter.

for most engineering positions while communication is a part of the job it isn’t the most important part. female PMs are better than males for instance. There is space for women leads in tech. My point is that a majority of women wouldn’t do well in the Engineering department due to reasons you highlighted above

also i’m not sexist. you just don’t see the value women’s roles hold in society. If women don’t do them and men can’t society would fall apart. best luck to you

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camxus t1_j5jegtd wrote

also i think you should read a bit more of that meta analysis especially on:

Sex and Gender

Biological and Innate

Abilities and Achievement

> Humans are born with innate abilities, such as the ability to learn a language, but the language they learn, if any, depends largely on their experience. Similarly, they are born with the innate ability to count and discern quantities, but how they develop those abilities depends on their environment and learning experiences. Abilities are developed in supportive environments.

ALSO science and engineering are very different fields. The relationship between male and female scientists is way more balanced than that of m:f engineers. You’re trying to make the woke point that women and men have exactly the same aptitudes and this is simply false. OFC there are women who have aptitudes usually found in males but that’s not the usual case. There’s so many biological and societal factors that makes us different from another.

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camxus t1_j5j4use wrote

I’d much rather have a female accountant, bookkeeper or HR recruiter/manager than a male. They just do the job better. The best know their worth and get paid accordingly.

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