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canttouchmypingas t1_j5izdf8 wrote

They are, people just don't agree with the data as they believe it's manipulated


kertnik t1_j5j29r1 wrote

Well, Ukraine wasn't ever as repressive as Russia, and in no elections those parties that supported uniting with Russia (note that this is not the same as pro-Russian parties) never had more than 7% of votes.


canttouchmypingas t1_j5j2mi2 wrote

You replied to someone talking about Crimea, there was a referendum and most of the west doesn't accept it. This is the evidence to my counterclaim that his words are indeed supported by data, people just don't agree with it as they believe it's manipulated:


kertnik t1_j5j3ao2 wrote

Well, this 'referendum' can't in any way be more evidential than Ukrainian elections, just because it was contucted with military in polling places, under occupation (albeit peaceful), with no equal treatment of the opposing side (no pro-Ukraine narrative was allowed). And moreover, there are lots of discrepancies that implies those numbers were just written without even counting the ballots


canttouchmypingas t1_j5j5zgp wrote

You seem to be debating the data and are elaborating on why you think it's manipulative, that's not the point. You made a claim that there's no statistical data to back it up. I said there was, it was just contested, and provided a link. The only point is that there is data, contrary to your initial claim


kertnik t1_j5j7n2e wrote

It isn't data, I can myself create same thing that '96% Canadians are in favour of joining to the UK'.

Data becomes data when it is real, not just made up.


canttouchmypingas t1_j5jazik wrote

Just because you don't accept it doesn't make it real, you're getting a bit ahead of the point on why you disagree with it. I noted as such in my initial counterpoint where I said that data exists, people just believe it's manipulated. You believe it's manipulated and thus won't accept it, but that does not mean that it does not exist. You claimed that there was no data, I showed you the data. You cannot write it off either as its being used as one of the main claims by Russia. To them its very real and not manipulated. We cannot pretend it doesn't exist because we don't like it. That is the only point I have to make, that your original claim of no data existing is inaccurate. It does exist, it's simply not accepted by the west. There is a difference between nonexistence and nonacceptance.