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squeevey t1_j9ymb47 wrote

The shift in MLB is when the defensive players "shift" from their normal positions to more of one side of the field. They usually do this because a batter will have a tendency to hit on one side or not. By shifting coverage to the side they hit to, the defense has more of a chance to get the ball faster.

The problem that people seem to have is that if lowers base hits. Which means there are less base runners. Which means less scoring.

So they implemented the ban. This is to hopefully have more base hits and maybe make baseball more exciting to watch.

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Tato7069 t1_j9yn4hc wrote

To expand, "the shift" isn't something that's been in baseball as it is today for a hundred years, and they're suddenly banning it. It is based on analytics which have only been used for 15 years or so to way over shift, leaving huge parts of the field wide open, making the batter either try to hit where they're uncomfortable hitting naturally, which they rarely do, or hit it at the side of the field jammed up with fielders... Which doesn't work out too well unless it's a home run.

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DJKGinHD t1_j9z0s8h wrote

I don't watch baseball. I just learned about both the ban and the reaction to the ban from this post. That being said, couldn't the batters get the same analytical data and use it during practice to build the skill of hitting that gap they naturally avoid? It would make the shifting a disadvantage. If you go up to bat and see the team shift to right field because that's where you tend to hit, you use the skill you developed during practice to hit to left field.

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Tato7069 t1_j9z22fm wrote

That's what everybody said at the beginning, but no. They got to be the best at what they do because of how they do it, and sometimes that doesn't mean you can just do it differently. Sometimes people would lay a bunt down in the direction with no fielder, but you'll often be happy to see the guy who can hit it 400 feet take a bunt single against you.

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nstickels t1_ja05rwf wrote

So a couple of things, it usually isn’t the outfield where they shift (well they do, but it isn’t as dramatic) and not where the ban is. The ban is for the infield. For a right handed hitter, the 2nd baseman will shift over and play on the 3rd base side of second, and the SS and 3rd baseman move over a little as well, basically saying “we know if you hit a ground ball, you will hit it to the left side of the infield and there’s no way it’s going to get through us if you do now.” For a left handed batter it’s in reverse and they all shift to the right side of the infield for the same reason.

Asking “why don’t they just hit it the other way” is sort of like saying “why can’t a pitcher who hurt his elbow on his throwing arm just pitch with his other hand then?”

First it’s not every batter they would do this for. It is only about 40% of batters, those that overwhelmingly pull the ball. These batters have hit like this their entire lives. Their entire approach at the plate with timing, movement, rhythm, muscle memory, etc is predicated on hitting that way. And remember that these are basically the best people in the world at hitting a ball with a stick. Could they learn a different swing? Maybe, but they made the major league because of their current swing.

Also, keep in mind that when the defense employs the shift, pitchers pitch a certain way as well. Batters tend to pull pitches on the inner half of the plate and push pitches on the outer half. And a batter will tend to pull off speed pitches more and push very fast fastballs (like pitches that can hit the upper 90s and triple digits). Finally higher pitches are easier to hit in the air, and lower pitches, especially those with late breaking movement tend to be hit on the ground. So a pitcher will throw primarily on the lower inner third, and will take a little off their fastball and throw off speed to get the batter to pull the ball, and will try to throw with downward or inward movement to force grounders and pop ups.

Changing their swing to try to hit the opposite way could have a drastic impact on their hitting ability in general, and ruin their ability to return to their old swing when the defense isn’t in the shift. Plus for most of those hitters, the goal isn’t to hit a ground ball anyway. The goal is to hit a home run in every at bat. The shift doesn’t matter when the batter crushes the ball. Changing their swing means they aren’t crushing the ball anymore. So most of the adjustment they are doing is swing lower since they will be expecting pitchers on the lower inner quadrant and are trying to avoid hitting a grounder.

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MrDozens t1_ja2267j wrote

Sure. But way easier said than done.

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chicagotim1 t1_ja0fjuu wrote

That would be the argument against the shift ban in a nutshell yes.

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uummwhat t1_ja1y35t wrote

Yes, though do keep in mind hitting is really hard, and a lot of the "x guy hits the ball to y location" isn't always so much something he chooses to do so much as what he can do.

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pgrocard t1_ja2o71v wrote

https://www.mlb.com/news/ted-williams-faced-defensive-shifts-in-1940s-c191605204

>This wasn't actually the first recorded instance of the shift. In the 1920s, some managers moved their defenses around to the right side against another dead pull left-handed batter, the Phillies' Cy Williams, according to a Society For American Baseball Research (SABR) profile. This Williams, who batted .320 from 1920-26, reportedly admitted, "I couldn't hit a ball to left if my life depended on it."

It wasn't used anywhere near as frequently back then, but the shift actually has been around for just about a hundred years.

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lokigodofchaos OP t1_j9ytjho wrote

Thanks! I can see why people would get angry that they are removing some strategy to make the game more exciting.

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DavidRFZ t1_j9yvjtl wrote

They are only banning the extreme shift. The fielders can still shift quite a bit but the SS/2B will so longer be able to move so far as to be on the ‘wrong’ side of the 2B bag. If one of those guys is playing right behind the 2B, that’s still a decent shift.

They do this in other sports. NBA has had a couple of ‘illegal defense’ type rules. The NFL is always tweaking what pass defenders are allowed to do.

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Fred2718 t1_j9z5ani wrote

The new rule is only 1) the four infielders must remain in the infield, so cannot move one outfield for coverage, and 2) there must be two infielders on either side of the home-second base diagonal.

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Bunktavious t1_j9zenzy wrote

That seems reasonable. You can still make significant shifts with that, but can't jam five guys around short when there's a runner on third, for that batter that only pulls his ground balls.

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Whydun t1_j9yw318 wrote

Can hitters not control where they hit? Seems more sporting to let the shift happen and let people adapt to the skills required to exploit the shift.

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squeevey t1_j9yxmeb wrote

For what they pay then you'd think so. But the reality is, they are trying to hit a small sphere with a small cylinder. If they swing too early the ball goes one way, if they swing too late it goes the other way. So as a batter, you need to have your timing just right. But then you have to contend with the pitcher changing the speed at which the ball travels. That's just to make sure you're hitting to one side of the field or not.

THEN you have to control the bat where it HITS the ball above or below the axis of the ball. One makes it pop up, the other makes it go down.

Now that I'm thinking about this I'd love to see Boston Dynamics build a batting robot. Maybe a whole team!

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theicon77 t1_j9z0h3h wrote

Yes the good ones can. The problem is owners don’t pay for slap hitters to the opposite field. They pay for guys that can drive the ball. So over time more and more players are trying to drive the ball to get the large contracts. Eventually you don’t have players trying to go the opposite way because it is not in their financial interest.

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ThisOneForMee t1_ja02dbq wrote

Making great hitters settle for bunt singles is still advantageous for the defense

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st1r t1_j9yym6g wrote

Just making contact with a major league pitch is already incredibly hard to do

Making solid, hard contact is even harder

Many players do hit to both sides so they don’t get shifted by the defense, but many also focus on hitting it as hard as possible which means you give up some control over where the ball goes. The trend over the past couple decades has been to focus on hitting the ball as hard as you can rather than focusing on hitting it to a specific area of the field because the stats have shown that to be more effective.

If you’re hitting for power then you’ll naturally swing a little earlier on average because your bat speeds up through the swing, so if you hit the ball a little earlier you will hit it harder. But then it will also have the tendency to go in one direction. So a lot of power hitters tend to hit the ball to the same side of the field like 90% of the time. Batters who do this are often the best batters on their teams. Thus the defense shifts in order to limit the effectiveness of that batter.

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its-a-throw-away_ t1_j9ysiyh wrote

> Which means there are fewer base runners. Which means less scoring.

FYI

Base runners can be counted. "Scoring" cannot be counted.

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rpapafox t1_j9ylnnk wrote

Typically players are fairly symmetrically placed out in the field. Coaches sometimes 'shift' the position of players in the field towards the areas where a batter historically hits which supposedly gives them a higher chance of catching the ball and making an out.

The word 'fans' is short for fanatics, which answers your second question.

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[deleted] t1_j9yjmmm wrote

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[deleted] t1_j9yrpvy wrote

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explainlikeimfive-ModTeam t1_j9ze248 wrote

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Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):

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