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Magneto88 t1_je4o84w wrote


Eric1491625 t1_je59kjr wrote

It was "legally taken" in about the same was as Paris was "legally occupied" by Hitler and Black people were "legally enslaved and bound to forever serve their masters". It has no meaning to us today.

Saying the Elgin marbles were "looted" is not a loaded term, any more than saying legally enslaved Blacks were "murdered" is a loaded term, just because it was legal.


Magneto88 t1_je5eb8n wrote

The Ottoman Empire was the universally recognised legal authority for Greece at the time. Ipso facto it was legal. Like I said, whether you morally agree with the position and whether Greece should have been ruled over by the Ottomans is another matter. It was however legal at the time the deal was done and the marbles were acquired legally.


bastardlyann t1_je66yoq wrote


But who, of all the plunders of yon fane On high, where Pallas linger'd, loth to flee The latest relic of her ancient reign; The last, the worst, dull spoiler, who was he? Blush, Caledonia! such thy son could be! England! I joy no child he was of thine: Thy free-born men should spare what once was free; Yet they could violate each saddening shrine, And bear these altars o'er the long-reluctant brine.


But most the modern Pict's ignoble boast, To rive what Goth, and Turk, and Time hath spared: Cold as the crags upon his native coast, His mind as barren and his heart as hard, Is he whose head conceived, whose hand prepared, Aught to displace Athena's poor remains: Her sons too weak the sacred shrine to guard, Yet felt some portion of their mother's pains, And never knew, till then, the weight of Despot's chains.


What! shall it e'er be said by British tongue, Albion was happy in Athena's tears? Though in thy name the slaves her bosom wrung, Tell not the deed to blushing Europe's ears; The ocean queen, the free Britannia, bears The last poor plunder from a bleeding land: Yes, she, whose gen'rous aid her name endears, Tore down those remnants with a harpy's hand, Which envious Eld forbore, and tyrants left to stand.

Lord Byron


dragowall t1_je6v5vk wrote

Pretty sure that this claim is being contested right now as there is no official firman from the emperor in the ottoman archives. There is a good chance that Elgin just bribed officials there to take the marbles.


sir_sri t1_je72iu1 wrote

The French government as recognized by the allies and later United Nations never recognized the occupation of France as an annexation.

A better example would be Alsace Lorraine (now Alsace moselle), which was legally part of the German Empire from 1871 to 1918.

Countries and their territories are not immutable, and historical governments of countries have no obligation to follow modern notions of historical preservation. Anything held for long enough is a historical artefact. There was no government of Greeks by Greeks from 1453 until the Russian/ottoman capture of the ionian islands in 1800, and Greece itself wasn't a country until either 1821 or 1830 depending on when you want to say it's recognized.


dondilinger421 t1_je9npk7 wrote

What about the Basque? Should we consider them occupied by Spain? Should we all apologize to Sicily for assuming they're part of Italy?