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Jkei t1_iy817dg wrote

/u/Mastodon996 and /u/Expert-Hurry655, both wrong. If only it were like that.

>Some research articles are free, and others are behind paywalls. Why? Because it costs money to operate. If you see a research paper you'd like to read that's behind a paywall, any public or university library should be able to get you a copy, because most of them have subscriptions.

>But research is expensive and scientists need to bring food to the table too. Someone needs do pay for all that and whoever pays can decide where the results go, if an aerospace industry company is researching on a new material, they do that because they hope to make proffit in the future.

Research is expensive, and researchers do need to make a living (most in academia don't earn particularly much relative to the time/education investment needed to get to their positions).

But the paywalls you're seeing do not fund these researchers and their projects. It is an entirely for-profit middle-man business run by the journal publishers, a model that persists only because they have the power of establishment on their side. Scientists must publish to stay relevant and stay funded, and publishing is controlled by these journals who extract fees from the scientists to publish their work, too. And the peer review process, where impartial experts judge the quality of submitted work before publication, playing a major part in the editorial role for journals? Those scientists aren't paid for their time either. Journals take and take, and make everyone else pay for things they didn't create, with minimal operating costs -- all they have to do is host the research papers, and print some paper copies. The profit margins on this business are ludicrous.

Some countries are attempting to break up this model. I believe in the US, regulations are being put in place currently that force academic work funded by taxpayer money (a huge share of research funding!) to be made available free of charge to the public within a year.

There are also certain fields, mostly around computer science, that are breaking free of this themselves by launching open publication platforms and collectively trusting/supporting them, taking away traditional journals' prestige factor.

Source: am in academia.

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Dependent-Law7316 t1_iy875d4 wrote

Yes I can confirm this. I haven’t made a cent off any of my publications. The papers that are available for free are from “open access” programs, where the researchers probably paid a fee to make the work available for free instead of having it behind the standard pay wall. It os becoming more common for funding agencies to require that you make the work freely available.

That said, your public library probably either has or can get any paper you want, it just might take a bit to do an inter library “loan” of the article. Or email the corresponding author. Many (not all) are willing to send you a copy.

In the land of chemistry and physics, ArXiv is a popular way to accomplish satisfying funding agency open access requirements without having to pay the journals extra.

Source: am also in academia

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Jkei t1_iy8ar4y wrote

ArXiv is a big one. I'm in life sciences, and we're seeing the same with medRxiv and bioRxiv. For all the harm it did, the pandemic did much to drive adoption of these platforms. Though I feel many people still think of them as more of a stepping stone to that coveted Nature publication, etc.

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uwhyaw t1_iy8bboh wrote

> It is an entirely for-profit middle-man business run by the journal publishers

Plenty of prominent journals are run by nonprofit organisations - most learned societies have their own journals, for example.

> Journals take and take, and make everyone else pay for things they didn't create, with minimal operating costs -- all they have to do is host the research papers, and print some paper copies.

They also do copyediting, and gatekeeping to keep the cranks out. I agree that there is a lot of profiteering involved, but if the journals were pointless then everyone would just publish on sites like arxiv.

At some level, academics have to take responsibility for this problem. They're the ones who are choosing to pay to publish their work in crappy Springer/Elsevier/Wiley/MDPI journals instead of supporting their own learned societies or setting up their own more responsible publications. They're also the ones who obsess over publications and citations and tell the politicians that that's how they should be judged. This isn't a problem that is being foisted on academia from outside.

> I believe in the US, regulations are being put in place currently that force academic work funded by taxpayer money (a huge share of research funding!) to be made available free of charge to the public within a year.

Yeah, but these policies tend to result in one of two unsatisfactory approaches. Either the academic hosts a version of the paper privately, which often isn't quite the same as the "official" published version and can be hard to track down. Or they publish in an "open-access" journal, which brings its own problems. The open-access model is that you pay a big fee and they publish your article and make it available to everyone. This is basically the same as the vanity press model. Open-access journals have a huge incentive to publish as many papers as possible, and very little incentive to ensure their quality or promote them to a wide audience, exactly like vanity presses. Again, there are plenty of good, non-profit open access journals, but most academics prefer to publish in the endless array of Springer and Elsevier ones.

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Jkei t1_iy8e2nw wrote

These are fair points. I agree journals aren't entirely pointless, and that part of the blame in perpetuating this system lies with academics themselves. Watching your new paper doing numbers in Nature is something most would not pass up, even if there were alternatives that are more ethical in this sense. Disrupting that kind of status quo and trusting new platforms is always going to be hard, but I hope the push against the classical for-profit publishers continues.

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The_RealKeyserSoze t1_iyadbmc wrote

>”They also do copyediting, and gatekeeping to keep the cranks out. I agree that there is a lot of profiteering involved, but if the journals were pointless then everyone would just publish on sites like arxiv.”

Most of that is done by unpaid peer reviewers. The publishing companies that own journals don’t really add any value they are true middlemen.

Your other points are true, open access journals deserve more attention and prestige, hopefully opinions change going forward, if legislation doesn’t do it first.

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