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iHateCoding7 t1_ixqws8e wrote

Well, historical archers weren't exactly looking for accuracy. Bows have draw weights, it dictates how hard it is to pull the string and what force will be applied to the arrow.

Historical bows have absurd draw weights. They are incredibly hard to shoot accurately, but the arrows will travel a long distance. They were rarely shooting in a straight line, but were rather facing the sky such that the arrow will draw a curve through the air.

They used to create archer groups and shoot arrow barrages, that is a rain of arrows falling on the enemy troops.

There are exceptions. Some asian archers, especially, used to shoot arrows from horseback. They had the height and advantage and engaged in mid range combat that way.

What's funny, though, is how movies/games depict archers as some skinny guys. That's certainly not true. You had to be really fit to shoot such heavy bows.

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MummyPanda t1_ixrs98t wrote

Longbowmen would have been the biggest guys around due to the draw weight. No way is legolas pulling that

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Supraman83 t1_ixt98vl wrote

Isn't the draw weight on a longbow like 270lbs,

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Fat_IRL t1_ixtt5tu wrote

I'm just a random dude reading this and have absolutely zero expertise other than fucking around with a compound bow once, but I'll just say, anecdotally, there is no fucking way in hell the draw weight of a longbow was that high. I just googled a bit and the highest I could find was a chinese Qing Dynasty bow that was supposedly 150 pounds max.

You'd need to be like a professional strongman (think The Mountain) to draw a 270 pound bow, and even then I doubt they could do it more than a dozen times.

I'm 6 foot 4 and weigh about 300 pounds, I'm large. Ive been a brickworker and an iron worker. So I feel like I'm not weak. Two of me could not draw a 270 pound bow, with both hands.

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SideWinderSyd t1_ixty8ra wrote

In ELI5 terms, does a draw weight of 50 lbs mean I need to be able to lift up a 50 lbs bag of sand with one hand?

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Fat_IRL t1_ixu4oej wrote

No. Not in the way you're probably thinking. Drawing a bow (correctly) is almost all in the back muscles. Or really they ARE muscles that control your arm, but they are located in your back. In theory. But unless you're an Olympian or have impeccable technique or something like that, your arm is gonna be involved.

Kinda like how a pull-up isn't an arm exercise, it's really your back muscles moving your arms.

If you're using a modern bow and don't know what you're doing, it's gonna be difficult now matter how strong you are, or what the weight is. 50 pound draw and your first time? Its gonna suck. But 12 year olds can hand a 50 pound draw on aodrrnn bow if they know what they're doing.

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SideWinderSyd t1_ixuxds3 wrote

Thanks for the insight - TIL!

Drawing a bow sounds pretty impressive! And now I realise why I wasn't able to do pull-ups as a kid.

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StatusBattle9300 t1_ixws4g7 wrote

Professional archer here; no 12 year old can pull a 50lb draw, especially any recurve or longbow format. Re. compound bows, maybe if they were abnormally strong they could get to the let off point just once where the cams drop the weight down to 8lbs, but I doubt it. They’d have to pull 50lbs many inches to get there. Most 12 year olds will start on 14-18lb bows and by the time they’re full adults age they’d be pulling 54lbs ish if they were really fit, had great technique and a decent enough amount of muscle. I shoot every day and pull 56lbs, by the end of sessions I’m absolutely shattered.

Apart from that nitpick, really good explanation of the muscle use.

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Supraman83 t1_ixtz3j5 wrote

I looked it up I had the 270 right but it's 270 newton's which is about a 90 pound draw weight

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Fat_IRL t1_ixu3x4w wrote

90 pounds seems pretty much around (even sometimes low) what I saw referenced in my 2 mins of googling. So yeah.I cannot imagine how fucking strong you gotta be to do that even. 70 pounds is rough to me, muscular wise...but then I got like a lil trigger apparatus that connects to my wrist so I don't have to use my actual fingers.

Just think about how much pressure is gonna be on their fingers. with a cord of fabric of some type putting 90 pounds of pressure on your fingers as you draw the string back. That's hell. What badasses.

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AnotherWarGamer t1_ixtf0ai wrote

200 lb draw weight was quite common. Skeletons of archers were are deformed from pulling a heavy bow back over and over again. When the arrow hits an apple it explodes.

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Fat_IRL t1_ixttiia wrote

I'd like to see a couple sources for that. If it was so common.

Yes archers were deformed but 200 pound draw is just insane to me. No fucking way.

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YellsAtGoats t1_ixy4m5j wrote

I'm an amateur historian and archer. You're right, 200 was not all that common. 100-150 was typical.

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SideWinderSyd t1_ixty5hx wrote

What does deformed mean here? I thought bones were pretty rigid and arrow shooters would only gain more muscle? I could imagine the muscle being unequal when comparing both halves of the body.

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FencingCatBoots t1_ixtysv3 wrote

Your bones are constantly being broken down and built up! For an archer, that’s a lot of force on the skeleton in a very asymmetric way, meaning there’s tell tale differences in their bones.

https://kriii.com/english-bowmen/

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SideWinderSyd t1_ixtzc1m wrote

Thanks so much for the link - TIL!

And I just realised the modern equivalent would be people carrying shoulder bags or single strap bags. There's a difference in their gait, muscle structure and bones too.

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FencingCatBoots t1_iy32sw0 wrote

That’s a really good analogy that I’ll have to steal! Like a 65kg shoulder bag on only one shoulder for a few hours every day

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SideWinderSyd t1_iy42873 wrote

Thanks! And yeah, please do share it around! I've seen so many students office workers whose gait have been affected by heavy schoolbags (also because single strap looks cool).

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