The Brussels Effect spreads.

[removed]

All hail the Brussels Effect.

What is it?

The EU enforces a standard, and it spreads to other markets, either coz its more economical for the companies and/or coz other countries have had the same frustrations.

India does follow EU policy in technology as much as possible, so maybe it’s right

It’s the natural course of action. The EU is the biggest economic bloc on the planet. Everyone wants a piece of it, and since they make it for Europe it makes sense to sell it as is for everything else.

The only thing that hasn’t stuck is GDPR, outside of the EU.

[deleted]

Thank you European Union and India.

You have made the rest of the world's digital lives better

Tim Apple will not be a happy bunny today.

Now with both EU and India on it, the rest will most probably follow. Because why not.

It's not that the rest of the world that needs to follow. It's just not justifiable for manufacturers to make one device for the EU and India (massive markets) and one for the rest of the world. Just so they can make a few extra bucks selling crappy charge cables.

So everyone can enjoy 1 charging ecosystem.

They’ll just completely remove wired charging and force all iPhone users to buy MagSafe xD

Then the only holes left in the phone will be the speakers. So the speakers will be the next to go and you will be forced to buy Airpods for around.

Funnily enough I can see Apple trying to push that narrative and people still buying into it.

American software dev here;

We're slowly adopting GDPR compliant practices (even for American-only services).

Our main barrier is for California and New York to adopt a very similar policy, then our federal government will eventually follow.

Even Brazil is following this if I am not wrong.

[removed]

Yeah, that's my though process as well.

Maybe if the US is opposed, and China is angry, then combined they have enough force to push back. But if China or USA says "yeah that's perfect" then the last big market gates will fall

I don't know about India but the EU law (the one that passed that mandated type C) says that a device not using wires to charge has to use aj open standard (such as Qi).

So good luck to them, they'll still have to comply with the rest of the world.

Haven’t read the full order for India, but yes, the EU does have a solid track record of being thorough.

Nothing would please me more to be able to have one standard for all charging needs be it wired or wireless.

doesnt matter if a country opposes it, or doesnt make their own legislation. Comes down to what will make the most money for the manufacture.

Until Apple just does wireless and it's still proprietary.

Meanwhile in the US we are trying to find a way to sell different chargers for each phone in three separate pieces that have to be bought from three different store.

iPhones still support Qi charging…

>Comes down to what will make the most money for the manufacture.

Right. Even if China and the US say "use whatever, we don't care", no multi-national is going to lock themselves out of 2 billion+ potential customers.

If China and the US decide on a different, matching, standard, then there's a problem

Quoted from someone else's reply further up

>the EU law (the one that passed that mandated type C) says that a device not using wires to charge has to use an open standard (such as Qi).

The EU has very thoroughly thought-out regulations for.. pretty much everything. Lets assume you are the government of a successful African nation and local buisness people are making noises that they would like to start some chemical factories so that they can turn the output of some local mines into dyes and export those instead of just the raw minerals.

Do you

a: Let them build chemical plants with no regulation whatsoever?

b: Try to find enough local experts to write sensible regulations at the same time your local tycoons are on a hiring spree?

c: Run the EU regs - that have conveniently already been translated into at least 3 of your four official languages - through a copier?

C is a really popular answer.

Is there no discussion on the impacts to advances in technology? What if someone makes a standard that is faster and it mandates a change in connector?

I have adapter fatigue belive me, but it seems like a weird thing to be mandating.

[deleted]

Apple already supports Qi on its iPhones.

MagSafe works with any Qi charger. The MagSafe is essentially Qi with a magnet to ensure that the wireless charger is aligned properly for optimal (charging) power.

So it's not proprietary, which is what I was replying to

Insert obligatory XKCD here.

That's good then. No problems if they switch to only wireless charging.

These laws, as written, are just going to make the situation worse.

What they should have done instead is outlaw devices that only support out-of-spec USB-C cable that comes with the device. Half the flashlights on r/flashlight are like this. If you plug an in-spec cable/charger into them they refuse to charge. They lack of the most basic of handshake resistors to request 5V >250mA so you have to use the 5V infinityA cable they pack with the flashlight.

Unchecked capitalism is horrifying. If they had it their way we'd be stuck in 2002 when all phones had different proprietary chargers.

Apple wont do USB-C. they will fast-track magsafe despite it not being able to transfer data at USB-C speeds. They will remove the port to stay 'compliant' despite the fact that MagSafe IS PROPRIETARY. They will use their loophole to continue to overcharge you for cables through their MFi system. $4 per cable is goes to apple, currently. THAT is why your lightning cables cost an arm and a leg

I bought a lightning cable from Amazon for $6 lmao, and it's a meter long. You really need to get back on your meds

You're still allowed to make a new standard. The law has allowances for new standards it just has to be agreed to.

It's honestly not a concern. This law was only needed because Apple chose to be dicks. The EU told every manufacturer more than a decade ago to sort out their standards or they will. Literally every single company but Apple got together and went to USB. Apple was the lone holdout that adamantly refused so now we have a law because one company refused to work with others.

Their connector, the magsafe, is proprietary. Sure you can use a Qi pad, but then it has to be lying down on a table and you can't use it normally like when plugged in.

They know this. They know you will still shell out $40 for a magsafe cable that costs the manufacturer extra money to sell as MFi just because it is proprietary.

They are making tens of billions off their cut from cables, apps, subscriptions that they don't even make themselves. This is anti-competitive behavior that hurts the end user

[deleted]

I have seen many issues at my previous job with USB C / thunderbolt. People think they can use any cord and charger as long as it fits in a USB C port. Guess what, you won’t get video in a thunderbolt port just because a USB C cord fits in the port. Your laptop probably won’t charge if you try and charge it with a phone cord and charger.

Shame that we're settling on this standard instead of a connector that doesn't care about orientation at all.

Like they have done for the last 8 years, laptops will slowly adapt the new standard alongside the previous one. If it gains market share and there is sufficient interest from the industry, lawmakers can always mandate the new one instead.
That being said, the usb type c connector is capable of many times more power and bandwidth than it is used for today.

There are rumors that the iphone will get USB-C, but only the Pro will get USB3.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/16/iphone-15-high-speed-data-transfer/

Next do bathroom electronics: my razors all have different chargers!

Applels seething

Not it’s not. I charge my Galaxy and iPhone on the same wireless charger.

That won’t happen anytime soon. All phones use the USB protocol for data transfer regardless of the port and the USB group is committed to using USB-C well into the future. That means that you won’t get a speed boost over USB-C without going outside the protocol (which is insane) and that if you managed to get the USB group to come up a new speed it’s pretty much a guarantee that USB-C will support said speed.

As a sidenote, the “USB group” is a consortium of big companies, not a government body of any type. Pretty much every single big company who could possibly want to come out with a faster single cable data transfer method is in there, and that includes Apple.

Another sidenote, believing that USB-C can harm innovation in the smartphone space by limiting transfer speeds is ridiculous. No phone manufacturer gives two shits about wired transfer speeds, as evidenced by most of them sticking to USB 2 speeds for their devices (again, that includes Apple and their innovative Lightning port).

Finally, and to more directly answer your question, if that fantasy scenario you described were to happen the company responsible could just knock the USB group and EU’s doors and tell them about their fantastic new standard. If it’s actually an upgrade and it’s offered as an open standard they’ll probably just embrace it and update the standards and legislature. The point of the law is to prevent companies from coming out with myriads of shitty proprietary ports and standards, nothing more, nothing less.

And actually finally now, the law doesn’t ban alternate ports, it just requires a USB-C port. If all else fails the oh-so-poor innovation-starved manufacturers could simply stick their magic-fueled ports right beside the USB-C and call it a day.

The only thing better than perfection is standardisation. That being said, usb-c cables can have vastly differing functionality 🤓

Someone didn't bother reading the article

Doesn't the regulation also call for a standard wireless charging system?

[removed]

I am talking about charging at 5V 3A using a 65W in-spec USB-C PD charger, which definitely supports that. I only named Apple because they are a core member of the USB-C coalition and designed the spec in the first place, but no in-spec charger of any brand charges these flashlights for some reason. The flashlights can't activate the 5V 3A handshake message.

You want a circular port?

?

[deleted]

While agreeing with most of your post: lightning cables haven’t cost an arm and a leg for over a decade in a lot of markets, especially so in the US.

Even Best Buys branded cables weren’t that expensive back in 09, and when Anker, Monoprice and Cable Matters (to name very few) stepped into the market around the same time, it was a boon to consumers.

Really comes down to economies of scale, if you’re making millions of something there is a very small amount of expense per unit in producing a different plug. Like, I’m guessing it’s a couple cents per device.

Licensing fees for proprietary plugs easily make up the difference, and it’s a gift that keeps giving for years after the original purchase.

Ya and you get bombarded with “liquid detected” errors

Amen. I can charge my PC laptop and my Android phone w the same cord. Good luck to apple users.

Which is exactly what USB c is

Using a few different types of cables: horrifying.

https://youtu.be/mPPGMNOLaMw

[deleted]

yes

[deleted]

What does that mean?

One for face, one for balls, one for shaft and one for asshole, one for armpits.

No cross contamination.

Tim apple. Lol. Upvoted.

Apple puts something in their own charger so they can detect when a charger is made by a third party. If you use a third party you get tons of “device not supported” or “liquid detected” warnings to spook you.

Isn't easy to just adopt the more stringent one and call it a day?

>This law was only needed because Apple chose to be dicks.

I'm happy about the death of micro b too

They still sell some electronics with it

I work in IT, I would love a program that could test cables using 2 thunderbolt 3/4 ports on a computer and tell us what spect the cable is. It's a nightmare having cables that look the same and work differently, especially after year or so when the markings have rubbed off.

Currently the only thing out there is the $25,000 tester Linus Tech Tips bought, Ill never get that Purchase order through where I work.

Waiting for the first American to bash this because they have to change from lightning to USB -C...

Qi chargers are universal afaik.

[removed]

Bro get some cleaning liquid

You forgot D, which is just C but you accept bribes to allow A.

Parts may only be a couple cents per device, but now you need different packaging, different instructions printed, you need to track and ship different products to proper places there's alot of little things that add up.

Once they try it for a year and find thier usbc cable only broke once vs 4 times for a lightning cable, not to mention your lightning cable contacts corroding and having to wiggle and wobble the dam thing to get it to change

Yeah, I know it’s not exactly the same, I thought it was similar enough though, something fitting in a USB C port but not working just because it fits.

People in government are stupid. Say goodbye to innovation in technology due to more regulation. What about USB-X?

Hmmm interesting. Ive seen that happening with Samsung phones too so it’s probably not an apple only problem

Wait your shaft has hair?

I wouldn’t know. I’ve used iPhones for years. They’re great for the most part but the whole lightning charging cable system is an absolute shit show. Can’t wait for usb c

In 10 years everyone will be cursing them

Authoritarian nonsense

Usb-c is symmetrical along one axis, not two, so technically a barrel plug is what this person is looking for I guess?

If only we were this smart in the US.

And also why they’re designed to be crap and break

Can’t wait 10 years when our phones require twice the amount of power and we’re stuck with USB-C because of government regulations. This seems like a government overreach.

>Unchecked capitalism is horrifying. If they had it their way we'd be stuck in 2002 when all phones had different proprietary chargers.

But they've had their way all this time already and we're not in that situation.

I think the primary motivation for India is the dumping of old tech as mentioned in the article:

>A key concern for India is that once the EU makes the shift, obsolete phones and equipment could be dumped here, a second official said, requesting anonymity.

Which of the 27 kinds of usb-c is the standard?

But the pins always have to line up.

I’ve never had any problems with third party cables, in fact they are much better than the crappy apple ones

Anyone that uses an electric razor for those areas must spend a lot of time on it, cause your balls are huge!

Sure, put the most stringent practices are not so easily monetizable/exploitable. That is the whole point of the GDPR, prevent abusive (but profitable) practices among other things.

Oh hell - I'm specifically waiting till the iPhone family is all USB-C to get a new one!

Wich is precisely why the EU law says that if a new open standard connector is developed and replaces/supersede USB-C it will be allowed to be used. ALSO, if the device needs so much current that USB-C can't suply it, the law states that it only aplies to devices that need UP TO 100w of power, wich is the current max wattage of USB PD.

I have no idea what the Indian law says, but it is likely to be like that.

I wish I shared your experience. My last iPhone got ruined because a third party charger broke inside the phone. Every connector was loose and shitty after that. :(

IF USB-X is the succesor of USB-C and is an open standard the EU law will allow it to be used. Don't know about the Indian law, but most likely is similar.

US needs to do this pronto

Every usbc cable can charge a phone.

Just don't buy apple product. I don't. But all these apps fanboys complaining about "capitalism" but don't understand the consumer is ultimately in charge, you just willing to take it up the A** vs not buying.

Only anecdotal, but I've used samsung phones and my wife iphones for the last 5 years, basically only buy 3rd party cables for both, and neither of us have ever had any of those issues come up at all

Just don't buy product from companies that don't do what you like. Or choose the one that's the best at your ideals. This is why I refuse to get apple products.

It will spill over the the US. Too much R&D and production costs to make it use two different standards.

Yep, same.

I’ve had the same lighting cables for better than five years.

All this change will do is force me to buy new cables when I eventually upgrade my existing phone and iPad.

I love the USB-C on the new iPad. I hope it will make its appearance on the iPhone soon!

Yes beacase it was checked by the EU and India. Not the case in the US

Yet they still make different models that have either Dual physical SIM, physical + eSIM, or dual eSIM only

Everything is going to wireless charging so just like Europe this means nothing.

Now let’s get gas caps on one side mandatory please!

If this happens the regulations will be changed. There’s plenty of time for industry to give governments a head start

[removed]

What’s usb3? I thought it’s RGR same as usb-c?

[removed]

Yeah me neither lol

Why request anonymity? Is he affraid to be promoted?

I fucking hate printers. If there is any way to avoid them, then thats the way for me.

[removed]

They don't have much of a choice. The EU is forcing their hand. The only question is if it will show up in 2023 or 2024. (and, I guess, if it will be across the board or a EU only product)

all-smartphones-to-use-usb-c-charging-ports-from-autumn-2024-says-eu

The EU law doesn't go into effect for another year. India is only today talking about it. It's not even an official law yet. So no one in the EU or India (or anywhere else) has been keeping device makers in check yet.

Not at all. Old tech will sell out and will always be available second hand in any market. Every cheap device has already switched to Type C some time ago, so the vast majority of devices available in India already are Type C. India will still get a lions share of old and used devices. However, that's fine. They are second-hand and will have no issues being sold. The change is to save people money, make it easy so people can share chargers, and create far less waste. The rules are very late in the game, 10 years ago would have been more useful.

Been griping about this since C was invented. Why take so long to use the best version of a cable. So mandy devices still use the shitty old cables you have to keep em around. Its annoying as Christ.

Apparently you’re not allowed to voice a frustration.

The consumer is absolutely jot Incharge lmao

USB-C is just a plug. Nothing more. There are many USB2 USB-C cables. USB3 is a transport protocol. Apple will use Thunderbolt.

Apples switching with the next iPhone and I think most Android phones already do.

Lenovo Legion supports 135w from Type - C. How much power will a phone need in future.

[removed]

[removed]

Being second biggest smartphone manufacturer helps

If standards are prevent innovation then why even have standards on domestic power distribution? Let companies decide AC or DC, 50hz or 60hz. Let companies decide different spectrum for 5G, 4G different spectrum for Radio for different companies. Let automakers have proprietary chargers for EVs so you can only charge at certain locations. This is not innovation, this is crony capitalism and USB C is the best standard, when there will be better stable alternative, laws will be amended

I guess india isnt gonna have any iphones

Smart contact lenses: wait WHAT?

I heard the rumour that Pro will get thunderbolt

But unfortunately for us, the type of configuration that the C type comes with, only became mainstream in the last 5 years. But it's still better than 5 years later or something.

I get what they’re trying to do but we’re all going to fucking hate these laws when USB-D (or whatever) exists and isn’t in anything because it’s too expensive for device makers to ship with two ports.

One consumer is not. But alot of consumers are. Product companies are looking at what consumers will buy, not just making product and saying you have to buy this.

I flew on an Airbus 350 today. They handed out headphones to every passenger who proceeded to throw them out afterwards. Why are we thwarting innovation in the time of excess?

It's the same in Australia, type C only 5 years, still LOTS of people have devices with Micro USB, however it's changing very fast, more people have type C than than Micro USB. When Apple changes, there will be a lot of angry people, but it will be better eventually. At least until something else better comes along.

I think the decision against Apple was rather a necessary one. I mean they charge filthy money for a charger just to make it "exclusive" or something. And the way people act with Apple products, like a herd, they were bound to buy that too. Plus this also prevents cable waste to an extent as well, as now C type can be used for multiple products.

Part of the point of adopting EU standards wholesale is that many firms will not try to get out of them by bribery or lobbying.

Obeying local laws that the locals wrote themselves is extra work for the corporate machinery - If your officials are corruptible they might get bribed to avoid that workload. If the local law is "EU directive copied" and the corporation is already operating in the EU a whole lot of the time they will just whole-sale recreate the european operation, safety efforts, smoke stack filters and all. "Build a plant just like the one in Cologne, except with more airconditioning" is not a lot of extra work, and doesn't carry the risk of a pr disaster down the road.

This should only be the case for consumer devices. I use a USB C tablet everyday at work and it’s hardware robustness is abysmal. For uses where you have to constantly insert and remove the cables it underperforms. 5% or our productivity is lost to addressing these issues.

Yeah there's a big fucking problem. It makes charging on the go a pain in the ass

Not saying it's a smart idea (I personally would never buy a wireless only phone). I'm saying there won't be any compatibility issues with competing products.

I'm still on the fence about this, on paper I love the idea but governments move slow and usb c is already old. How long until something better comes out and I can't use it by law? Then will they just update the law again to include the newest charger 5 years after its release thus excluding the charger after that? I want the fastest tech always I just don't buy the thing with the shit charger when available. Maybe a law making is so you don't use old dated tech but that's encouraging waste.

I don’t know why so many people are celebrating law makers (who know nothing about tech mind you) making laws ultimately detrimental to technology

Perhaps it’s because they also know nothing about the tech industry

That's a pretty generalized statement. I'm sure there have been laws that helped innovation. Such as the right to know, or the right to be forgotten

The right to be forgotten isn’t actually a law and I am equally opposed to something like that being a LAW. It’s almost like unpublishing a book using the law. Also I don’t know what world self enforced, retroactive, censorship is an innovation.

As for the right to know that pertains to public health and safety, not consumer convenience.

What's your opinion on copyright laws, and patents?

Most patent laws make sense to me, as a way to receive fair compensation for a invention for a significant amount of time. As an engineer this is very logical to me, mechanism achieves x by doing y.

Copyright has always been a bit funny to me especially when it comes to things like color collections and music/sampling. I feel like a lot of rulings really break down to previous cases and public perception. Also it’s protected for what really seems way to long of a time. I don’t know much about copyright law to be honest but when compared to patent law it comes off as random especially if you subscribe to the idea of all creative ideas being derivative of the past e.g. “nothing is truly unique.” and if you start to argue about the idea of inherit “value” in the arts as opposed to using the arts to make value like a concert or show.

I also don’t mean to come off as a fuck the government type of person all the way, it just kinda rubbed me the wrong way a lot of the usb-c stuff was being discussed. It seemed to be a witch hunt against propietary technology that without a doubt was innovative when it debuted. I get a bit concerned that it may stifle technological pursuits in the future in fear of the law.

I'm conflicted on patent laws. They do encourage innovation but also can stifle innovation. Look at placed like china that have little to no patent laws. Things innovate very fast there, but the quality tends to be low, they basically operate on the open source software example.

The dark side of patent law is every one seams to know someone who had a industry changing invention that was bought and squashed, likely much of that is myth tho.

lighting is var inferior to usb c in every way, low power, lower speed, lower quality. USBc was developed by a conglomerate including apple.

Undeniably the standard was was developed years after lightning was already on devices. Also afaik they’re only enforcing the type-c form factor not the usb-c standard.

Why does an Apple charger cost me $20-$30 then? Better performant USB-C cables cost around $8.

I don’t know? Where do you live? Where are you buying from? What brand are you buying? What type of cable are you buying?

See: “in a lot of markets.”

Average cost on the first page of Amazon results for both. I personally don’t leave the house much, is that my problem maybe? I’m autistic and the arthritis in my vocal chords starts acting up at the thought of there being a slight chance of needing to make eye contact with another instance of sentience.

I dunno. I search “lightning cable” and get $10 for a 3 pack of 6 foot cables.

That definitely could be a location thing. I don’t know and that shit sucks too.

I don't think the cost is filthy IF the quality matched the price, however their cables are really low quality, better than a lot of aftermarket cables, but Apple set the bar really low. I'd pay US$50 for a cable if i knew it would last for near forever. I am so glad it's going USB C (not that USB C is that great. It handles moisture badly, and it can burn out just from high humidity). But at least now everything will at least be the same 😀 Apple's Lightning connector is a little superior in robustness, but it's no longer sufficient for today's tech.

And Apple is implementing the Thunderbolt standard, which means all the extras that USB-C has listed as optional will be fully supported.

Which is cool and all but what did we benefit from using legislature to make Apple do this. The biggest argument is this idea of e-waste reduction because less cords but they fail to acknowledge that every manufacturer is just going to put new USB-C cables with every new device, and the customer convenience one just seems like such a forced argument. Like “sometimes people forget their chargers at home we should make a law so they’ll always have a charger!”