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Creative_Rhubarb_817 t1_j6khq4l wrote

Reply to comment by Old-Passenger-9065 in Do girls find it weird when a guy plays a female character? by [deleted]

I've been hearing this explanation for 20+ years. I'm glad it works for you and your wife, but I can't be the only one who doesn't stare at my character's ass the whole time I play games, can I?

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MyRedditUsername1101 t1_j6knp3c wrote

I mildly hate this reason. I'm not looking at the ass, but whatever I'm shooting at etc. and I'm sure it's the same for everyone else despite what they say.

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Creative_Rhubarb_817 t1_j6kp0ad wrote

Agreed. It feels like it's just defensiveness. "If I play as a girl, it must be because I'm so masculine and heterosexual in real life!"

Not that I have anything against guys who play female characters. I've done it myself a few times. But I find this excuse kind of cringey. You don't need an excuse, just play the way you want to.

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2itemcombo t1_j6kqlpr wrote

They are indirectly saying they are so fragile that looking at a guy's ass will make them gay.

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Don_Bugen t1_j6l0ccf wrote

It’s not an excuse; it’s simply a way of saying “I want the character I’m looking at for 100+ hours of the game to be something that is visually appealing to me, rather than be some sort of representation of who I am.”

I can relate to this. Grizzled war veteran with a buzz cut and huge muscles doesn’t look like me, no matter if I give it blond hair and a beard. Some of my favorite games have female protagonists (FFVI, BG&E, Metroid) so if you give me male or female Commander Shepherd, FemShep wins out.

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Creative_Rhubarb_817 t1_j6l64i6 wrote

I consider that completely valid. But I think you just showed that it's possible to say that without needlessly sexualizing and objectifying your character by focusing on their ass.

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Don_Bugen t1_j6lhdan wrote

Of course. Typically, the people who use this explanation use it as a defense because others are implying that playing as a woman means they’re identifying as a woman, and this is meant as an easily-understood assertion of one’s own gender and sexual orientation. The statement itself is intended to make the accuser back off.

I don’t think that a quip is out of line for asserting one’s sexuality or gender when others are trying to put the wrong label on it. After all, like it’s been previously stated, no one’s seriously ogling that ass for the full game. Least, no one older than fifteen.

I don’t see bands of macho Alpha males all choosing the female option and wolf whistling each other; just a bunch of regular guys defending why they made a simple choice, against both the Alpha Macho Men who see them as “less than,” and the few LGBTQ+ members who like to make fun of the straights and mock them for being “insecure”.

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Creative_Rhubarb_817 t1_j6lx2d1 wrote

Well, it sounds like we're largely in agreement about the term and why it's used. I certainly didn't mean to sound like I was advocating for people to be seen as lesser.

I just find it a little ironic that people defend the decision they're embarrassed about with an explanation that I personally would find more embarrassing. Like, if someone was embarrassed about their interest in anime and they said, "I swear, I just watch it to ogle at the waifus!" That, to me, would be more embarrassing than watching it for the stories and characters, not less.

I'm all for anyone to play games the way they want, even people who actually want stare at their character's ass. But I'm still amused at the fact that people try to stave off embarrassment by leaning on an explanation that, when thought through, is more embarrassing than the majority of alternatives that come to mind.

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Don_Bugen t1_j6n4r36 wrote

... I'm not sure you and I are on the same page as all. After all, this isn't "I swear, I only do this to ogle the waifus," this is " If I'm going to be watching a character animation, I want it to be attractive" with a side order of "Stop questioning my sexuality, asshole."

Theres nothing inherently embarrassing about being attracted to women. You're projecting your own emotion on the hypothetical person. That's fine if YOU feel it's more embarrassing, but by and large I think most people would just feel far more embarrassed to have someone attack their sexuality or gender.

For example: if I noticed that my trans male friend had a female avatar in most of the online games we played, and I said something to him in public like "Uh huh, what does this REALLY say about you?" I'd be DAMN LUCKY if he responded saying something like "It says I like staring at a nice ass" and left it alone.

It's fine to feel like people are altogether uptight and need to chill about this stuff, but you can't treat one person in a way that you'd never dream of treating anyone else, just because his sexuality and gender match a "Cis Male Gamer Stereotype." This isnt the 90s anymore, and you can't assume this comes from a place of toxicity or homophobia. Attacking someone's orientation or gender is something that no one likes.

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Creative_Rhubarb_817 t1_j6or4wo wrote

I think you need to chill. No one's attacking straight men here. I am a male who's attracted to women. There's nothing wrong with that.

However, there are many things to enjoy about games other than your avatar's appearance. Story, gameplay, environments, and so on. And there are many things to enjoy about your avatar other than the gender of their ass. Customization, roleplaying, and self-expression for instance. Straight men are no less capable of appreciating these things than anyone else.

Someone who indicates, even with hyperbole, loudly and publicly that they ignore these things to focus on visual arousal is indicating themselves to be a shallow and vulgar person. This is true whether they're a straight male, and straight woman, or a queer person.

I just find it ironic that people prefer this to having their sexuality questioned. I also find it problematic that enjoying a game on a more sophisticated level than pornography could cause a male's sexuality to be questioned. So I push back against this narrative whenever I see it.

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Don_Bugen t1_j6p865x wrote

I grew up in the 90s, bruh. Not a popular kid. And reading OP voice his fears on how he'd be perceived made me think back to it. "No one's attacking straight men here?" Dude, straight men attack each other for not looking straight enough, and everyone else attacks straight men if they seem too straight. Just like 2itemcombo below says "They are indirectly saying they are so fragile that looking at a guy's ass will make them gay."

This isn't a "Oh boo hoo you straight cis males you must have it so hard" but more of a "Come on, can't we be reasonable here" thing.

>Someone who indicates, even with hyperbole, loudly and publicly that they ignore these things to focus on visual arousal is indicating themselves to be a shallow and vulgar person. This is true whether they're a straight male, and straight woman, or a queer person.

And that's a fine opinion to have. I share the same opinion on loud, public, unprovoked declarations. As I said before, the only time I've heard this was when someone was confronted by another person who could not understand why a straight male was playing as a female (like Old-Passenger-9065, who started this) and was put into a position that they had to defend their sexuality.

If someone declares this loudly and publicly, without provocation, sure, that's a shallow and vulgar person. However, I will not judge someone who does so because another person is questioning them, because I don't know what is on the line for them, and as a non-macho dude I've been in that situation way too much. I have also known in my life heterosexual, homosexual, and pansexual people who have been in real danger or actually suffered real consequences because they didn't "present their sexuality" well enough. You run into all sorts as a foster parent in an urban area.

Old-Passenger-9065 is a good example of this - and I'm not saying a thing about him, personally, but the situation in general. A spouse looking over her husband's shoulder, seeing that he's always choosing to play as a woman, even in story and roleplay-heavy games... "Uh... why are you always playing as women, honey?" In many - not all, of course but many - relationships, that would immediately bring in tension. Is there something you haven't told me? Am I not enough? Maybe the spouse is mature enough either to understand the real, eloquently-stated explanation you gave about story, character, motivation... maybe they're not. Maybe this would put a strain on the relationship. It's hard to tell.

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Creative_Rhubarb_817 t1_j6pc0en wrote

I did too, and I totally understand what you're referring to. That's exactly why I believe so strongly that men should express themselves honestly without hiding behind platitudes that only feed in to negative stereotypes. Nothing is going to get better unless we stand up for our right to be who we really are.

I am not without sympathy for the people who are in a situation where it's dangerous to express themselves. But it's all the more reason why we should push back against the culture that forces them to do so, not embrace it.

I'm not blaming Old-Passenger-9065. You'll notice that all I said to him was that I'm glad it works for him and his wife. How he plays his game and manages his relationship is his own business.

But the OP of the thread was asking for advice, and my advice to him would be not to do what Old-Passenger is doing, but to embrace his enjoyment of playing female characters without shame and fear. I would advise him not to enter into a romantic relationship with someone that he can't be himself around, even if that means staying single for longer than he otherwise would have.

I don't say this to judge or shame you, Don_Bugen, but I think you would really benefit from talking to someone and working through the issues you have in this area. I've been there. I think if you were able to step back and look at this thread objectively, you would see that we're basically on the same side of this issue.

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[deleted] OP t1_j6knl1p wrote

I don't. I create female characters mainly in RPGs and it's mostly down to that there's more variety in character creation and outfits. I used to main a male Miqote in FFXIV and switched it to female because I noticed that the male outfits were basically the same basics. Female outfits can have a skirt, pants or bulky armour.

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