omg they sound like speakersSubmitted by PlotTwistItWasMe t3_11766sx in headphones
[deleted] t1_j9aauoo wrote
People who compare headphones to speakers have never once in their life set in front of a stereo speaker system. Dont even at me...
You will only realize how truly bad headphone "soundstage" is, even on the HD 800, when you listen to some old hard panned recordings. Due to the headphones channel seperation, one will NEVER get a true stereo image. Speakers on the other hand, even really affordable ones, can deliver a stereo image, which will put any headphone to shame.
Muscletov t1_j9ahlwv wrote
But at least I don't have to furnish an entire room around my headphones.
Speakers are great, but room acoustics are a complete bitch.
[deleted] t1_j9akgbe wrote
In my experience an enclosed space (a room to which you can close the door) plus REW gets you 95% of the way, without having to do any furnishing.
Whats less ideal is that for the best experience you want to be sitting in front of the speakers at one exact position, whilst with headphones you can do a hand stand in your garden and not miss out on anything.
rhalf t1_j9bgnm5 wrote
If I were to practice handstand in the garden, I'd prefer speakers. Because since when people care about their sweetspots while they're sweating? :)I can't 100% agree with you. Speakers vary in their interaction with the room. You can fix the modal region with good results, but an echoey room will often need some work. Maybe not as much as people think when they watch pictures online.
But I can see a pattern here. You seem to be using some narrow dispersion speakers. There are different builds.
KiyPhi t1_j9c1nym wrote
Not in my room. Reverberation and resonances were so bad, I I could clap and hear any metal in my apartment ring. Lined the walls with Rockwool panels and now everything except the bass resonances are great. For headphones, I turn on my RME's crossfeed for old hard-panned songs and get 95% of the way to speakers.
CToxin t1_j9bmt34 wrote
laughs in dirac live
rhalf t1_j9beuzv wrote
Finally a fellow soul, who dared put 'soundstage' in double quotes!
A soundstage is a concept from stereo speakers, that was repurposed (and bastardized) by headphone geeks.
Let's be real. Headphones don't have soundstage. They have sound bubble with a stretched drum kit. The term doesn't work. It confuses people.
LArule19 t1_j9ap8c1 wrote
I've had the chance to listen to many speakers system, some that cost more than my net worth, in a treated room. But a lot of times I still find myself enjoy the music from my headphones more. I feel like they are more personal, intimate, and engaging.
All I'm saying is that speakers isn't some holy grail that headphones can never touch. They are just different listening medium that provide different experiences.
[deleted] t1_j9ar9f8 wrote
No one has ever argued that headphones cannot be prefered over speakers.
My point was simply that a headphones "soundstage" is incomparable to speakers.
It therfore irks me, when people compare the "soundstage" of headphones to speakers, because that comparison can only be made by someone who does not know better.
LArule19 t1_j9areix wrote
True enough
radrod69 t1_j9b00hq wrote
I was just here to echo this sentiment. I've never really been impressed by speaker soundstage, or speaker anything to be frank (at least in comparison to headphones); even listening to a 90k Vandersteen system in a perfectly treated and measured room was underwhelming right after the LCD-5.
That being said, I'll agree with cunt - they're two different experiences and for the most part incomparable, but who is out here comparing the two? lol
klogg4 t1_j9awpau wrote
Finally words of truth. There's another side of truth though: music is good for stereo system they were mixed for. Hard panned recordings will never sound good in headphones - on the other side, binaural recordings won't sound as good as they do in headphones.
hhafez t1_j9ds2nd wrote
Where are binaural recordings though? Barely anything is binaural,
Basilr1 t1_j9b1z4o wrote
I've had good speakers, K-horns. I have good headphones HD800S. I was trying to replicate the speaker experience with the 'phones. Impossible! I realized that there is no meaningful comparison.
They are two different means to the same goal. The reproduction of live music. Compare speakers to speakers and 'phones to 'phones. Like Ferraris and F110s. Both competent means to the same goal, but totally different experiences.
suchtie t1_j9bdra4 wrote
My personal favorite analogy is cars vs. motorcycles. That is a truly different experience.
Comparing different cars is more like comparing frequency responses or driver design (dynamic/planar/estat). Sports cars and pickups are good at different things, but the way you drive them is largely the same. The bike however is operated very differently, and the feeling of riding one is worlds apart from driving a car.
Basilr1 t1_j9bi74t wrote
Due to living constraints, I must use headphones. So "good at different things" is exactly the point. If I were taking my 'phones cross country, I'd drive the sportscar. If I were moving the K-horns, I'd take the truck.
I appreciate what you're saying. I don't ride bikes anymore but, the experience of driving a Ferrari and a pick-up truck is quite different.
edit: As I mentioned in my first post the mission is to find the means to the same goal, i.e., live music. Having adequate transportation (car), or max enjoyment (bike), are different goals.
JTCPingasRedux t1_j9dr654 wrote
The same people also don't touch grass.
PhoenixRisingtw t1_j9ajnws wrote
What about Atmos 7.1 setup
[deleted] t1_j9al19s wrote
Most music is mixed in Stereo, so unless you have a recording (like movies) which scales with more than 2 speakers plus subs, I do not see the point tbh.
If you meant headphones with Atmos software, i.e. DSP, I believe that you can only say that because you have never experienced a stereo setup, let alone PROPER Atmos in a cinema :)
PhoenixRisingtw t1_j9awgm8 wrote
I mean Atmos speaker setup, or at least a 5.1, with proper mixed Dolby Atmos music. Some songs on Apple Music really come alive in Dolby Atmos on headphones. So it must sound amazing on 7.1 speakers. Also movies must be insane.
[deleted] t1_j9b0cwk wrote
Well certainly, a multi speaker setup with proper tracks or good movies is unmatched, when it comes to creating space through sound.
StardustNovaSynchron t1_j9cbvo6 wrote
Can speaker systems have soundstage and solid imaging like a pair of headphones though ? Also with speakers to experience perfect soundstage you have to sit in an exact position right ?
[deleted] t1_j9ce5oq wrote
>Can speaker systems have soundstage and solid imaging like a pair of headphones though
Yes, even a pair of 179€ Adam Audio T5V, angled at 30 - 45 degrees, will outperform ANY headphone, in regards to soundstage AND imaging! In comparison even the HD 800(S) feels like watching a 3D movie, without wearing the glasses! Be mindful though, soundstage and imaging is only one part of the experience and probably the least important one imho.
>Also with speakers to experience perfect soundstage you have to sit in an exact position right ?
Yes.
StardustNovaSynchron t1_j9cfdxu wrote
I see but on a AKG K702 I get about 200 degree of surround sound ( basically from ear to ear, dont get much sounds coming from in front of me ), to replicate that on a speaker system surely you need a third channel behind you right ?
[deleted] t1_j9cip8m wrote
You do NOT need a third speaker for the centre image. Dont you learn how stereo sound works in school? I know I did O.o
https://www.headphonesty.com/2022/01/what-is-the-difference-between-mono-and-stereo/
https://www.hifireport.com/mono-vs-stereo-the-complete-guide/
StardustNovaSynchron t1_j9cmjnl wrote
Not for the centre image , i mean the coming from behind you channel , most of basic headphones arent capable of reproducing it ( they just reproduce left and right and centre image aka inside your head)
[deleted] t1_j9cnfih wrote
Stereo has no "behind you" information.
That is a unique feature of surround sound. You can get that with a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker system and appropriate tracks or you can try binaural recordings on headphones like this one:
StardustNovaSynchron t1_j9ct73z wrote
Some recordings do though 😂, I listen to indian music and some recordings the singer is literally behind me singing to my neck or behind me to the right side , keep in mind that some of these songs are from 80s and i usually experience is with my Fidelio X2HR ( in my experience they feel like they have literally been tuned to sound like a 5 channel system and in some songs it's clearly evident )
hey12delila t1_j9cjkgt wrote
Have you tried a Crossfeed plugin? They seem to be the next step in attaining headphone realism
Sykil t1_j9b8xpz wrote
That’s what crossfeed is for.
thatcarolguy t1_j9ajclm wrote
The only decent speakers I have listened to in recent years are my friend's studio monitors and I am not that blown away by the soundstage. It just sounds like an arc of sound placed 3 feet in front of me instead of an arc of sound right in front of my face (but a similar angular size) with HD-800 + Stereo convolver.
Clickbaitllama t1_j9anv8h wrote
I don't think that studio monitors are the speakers being referred to
thatcarolguy t1_j9aprhp wrote
Should be the same as any speakers except that the correct distance to sit from them will vary with the width they are placed apart.
Shike t1_j9b1t04 wrote
False.
Off-axis dispersion and reflections can make a difference. Tell me a large single panel ribbon speaker has the same off-axis as say a MBL X-Treme. Those are two extreme examples of different dispersions.
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