Submitted by PlotTwistItWasMe t3_11766sx in headphones
Comments
[deleted] t1_j9aauoo wrote
People who compare headphones to speakers have never once in their life set in front of a stereo speaker system. Dont even at me...
You will only realize how truly bad headphone "soundstage" is, even on the HD 800, when you listen to some old hard panned recordings. Due to the headphones channel seperation, one will NEVER get a true stereo image. Speakers on the other hand, even really affordable ones, can deliver a stereo image, which will put any headphone to shame.
No-Context5479 t1_j9ad149 wrote
No headphone has soundstage.... More like headstage... Unless you experience a good speaker system headphones should suffice but I have never bought a headphone because of it's "soundstage"
Muscletov t1_j9ahlwv wrote
But at least I don't have to furnish an entire room around my headphones.
Speakers are great, but room acoustics are a complete bitch.
TaliskerBay22 t1_j9aizag wrote
Actually headphones with more soundstage sound even less than speakers. It is quite counterintuitive, but this weird 2d extended head stage that headphones like Akg701 and others have is even further away from speakers than headphones that have small soundstage like hd6x0. Actually in any headphone if you have crossfeed to go closer to a speaker representation the soundstage will close in.
thatcarolguy t1_j9ajclm wrote
The only decent speakers I have listened to in recent years are my friend's studio monitors and I am not that blown away by the soundstage. It just sounds like an arc of sound placed 3 feet in front of me instead of an arc of sound right in front of my face (but a similar angular size) with HD-800 + Stereo convolver.
Yamato37 t1_j9ajiye wrote
Headphone soundstage can be worth it, even though it's incomparable to speaker soundstage, because getting some extra layering and seperation gives another dimension to sound, especially in games.
PhoenixRisingtw t1_j9ajnws wrote
What about Atmos 7.1 setup
No-Context5479 t1_j9ajuf1 wrote
Layering and Separation is a subset of Imaging not Soundstage
[deleted] t1_j9akgbe wrote
In my experience an enclosed space (a room to which you can close the door) plus REW gets you 95% of the way, without having to do any furnishing.
Whats less ideal is that for the best experience you want to be sitting in front of the speakers at one exact position, whilst with headphones you can do a hand stand in your garden and not miss out on anything.
[deleted] t1_j9al19s wrote
Most music is mixed in Stereo, so unless you have a recording (like movies) which scales with more than 2 speakers plus subs, I do not see the point tbh.
If you meant headphones with Atmos software, i.e. DSP, I believe that you can only say that because you have never experienced a stereo setup, let alone PROPER Atmos in a cinema :)
OverL1ke t1_j9alnrm wrote
Lol,this days every headphone is a mini hd800
Clickbaitllama t1_j9anv8h wrote
I don't think that studio monitors are the speakers being referred to
LArule19 t1_j9ap8c1 wrote
I've had the chance to listen to many speakers system, some that cost more than my net worth, in a treated room. But a lot of times I still find myself enjoy the music from my headphones more. I feel like they are more personal, intimate, and engaging.
All I'm saying is that speakers isn't some holy grail that headphones can never touch. They are just different listening medium that provide different experiences.
thatcarolguy t1_j9aprhp wrote
Should be the same as any speakers except that the correct distance to sit from them will vary with the width they are placed apart.
ICantEvenGarne t1_j9aqre7 wrote
Hd800s soundstage is fake and forced often. Arya's provide a much more natural soundstage to me.
[deleted] t1_j9ar9f8 wrote
No one has ever argued that headphones cannot be prefered over speakers.
My point was simply that a headphones "soundstage" is incomparable to speakers.
It therfore irks me, when people compare the "soundstage" of headphones to speakers, because that comparison can only be made by someone who does not know better.
LArule19 t1_j9areix wrote
True enough
sverek t1_j9arna5 wrote
AKG712 IS A POOR'S MAN HD800.
thatcarolguy t1_j9aryvr wrote
I remember Arya being even wider but I didn't own both at the same time and I may be wrong.
Or it could be that I was so wrapped up in chasing the soundstage at the time I had the Arya and by the time I got the HD 800 I had come down to earth a bit and wasn't fooled as easily anymore.
I don't find it fake and forced at all though. It is just about 1 inch wider for me on each side than 6XX or IEMs (which are all the same width as each other and the same as 6XX lol) but seems to respond better to DSP or crossfeed to bring the sound forward in a slightly more speaker-like way.
human_performance t1_j9avrr2 wrote
Every time I see someone being picky about soundstage, bass response, or slam in headphones that cost more than $500, I want to say that it's time to get speakers
PhoenixRisingtw t1_j9awgm8 wrote
I mean Atmos speaker setup, or at least a 5.1, with proper mixed Dolby Atmos music. Some songs on Apple Music really come alive in Dolby Atmos on headphones. So it must sound amazing on 7.1 speakers. Also movies must be insane.
klogg4 t1_j9awpau wrote
Finally words of truth. There's another side of truth though: music is good for stereo system they were mixed for. Hard panned recordings will never sound good in headphones - on the other side, binaural recordings won't sound as good as they do in headphones.
radrod69 t1_j9b00hq wrote
I was just here to echo this sentiment. I've never really been impressed by speaker soundstage, or speaker anything to be frank (at least in comparison to headphones); even listening to a 90k Vandersteen system in a perfectly treated and measured room was underwhelming right after the LCD-5.
That being said, I'll agree with cunt - they're two different experiences and for the most part incomparable, but who is out here comparing the two? lol
[deleted] t1_j9b0cwk wrote
Well certainly, a multi speaker setup with proper tracks or good movies is unmatched, when it comes to creating space through sound.
Shike t1_j9b1t04 wrote
False.
Off-axis dispersion and reflections can make a difference. Tell me a large single panel ribbon speaker has the same off-axis as say a MBL X-Treme. Those are two extreme examples of different dispersions.
Basilr1 t1_j9b1z4o wrote
I've had good speakers, K-horns. I have good headphones HD800S. I was trying to replicate the speaker experience with the 'phones. Impossible! I realized that there is no meaningful comparison.
They are two different means to the same goal. The reproduction of live music. Compare speakers to speakers and 'phones to 'phones. Like Ferraris and F110s. Both competent means to the same goal, but totally different experiences.
TECHNICKER_Cz3 t1_j9b7ii0 wrote
*A*
Sykil t1_j9b8xpz wrote
That’s what crossfeed is for.
suchtie t1_j9bdra4 wrote
My personal favorite analogy is cars vs. motorcycles. That is a truly different experience.
Comparing different cars is more like comparing frequency responses or driver design (dynamic/planar/estat). Sports cars and pickups are good at different things, but the way you drive them is largely the same. The bike however is operated very differently, and the feeling of riding one is worlds apart from driving a car.
rhalf t1_j9beuzv wrote
Finally a fellow soul, who dared put 'soundstage' in double quotes!
A soundstage is a concept from stereo speakers, that was repurposed (and bastardized) by headphone geeks.
Let's be real. Headphones don't have soundstage. They have sound bubble with a stretched drum kit. The term doesn't work. It confuses people.
rhalf t1_j9bgnm5 wrote
If I were to practice handstand in the garden, I'd prefer speakers. Because since when people care about their sweetspots while they're sweating? :)I can't 100% agree with you. Speakers vary in their interaction with the room. You can fix the modal region with good results, but an echoey room will often need some work. Maybe not as much as people think when they watch pictures online.
But I can see a pattern here. You seem to be using some narrow dispersion speakers. There are different builds.
Basilr1 t1_j9bi74t wrote
Due to living constraints, I must use headphones. So "good at different things" is exactly the point. If I were taking my 'phones cross country, I'd drive the sportscar. If I were moving the K-horns, I'd take the truck.
I appreciate what you're saying. I don't ride bikes anymore but, the experience of driving a Ferrari and a pick-up truck is quite different.
edit: As I mentioned in my first post the mission is to find the means to the same goal, i.e., live music. Having adequate transportation (car), or max enjoyment (bike), are different goals.
Mr-Zero-Fucks t1_j9bic2q wrote
You can "emulate" soundstage with filters like dolby or dtx better in some headphones than in others. Maybe that's what they mean?
AntOk463 t1_j9bmk4u wrote
Even if it's not actual "soundstage," it's a term that exist for headphones and is used by everyone in the community. That's what the term is Even if it doesn't align with the term used elsewhere.
An example is with display resolutions, it's a ratio, so you should say 16:9 as "16 to 9" but everyone says "16 by 9" which is supposed to be used for actual values and not ratios. But everyone says 16 by 9, so that's now the industry term.
Also soundstage of headphones does change how they sound, it shouldn't be the definitive reason for getting a headphone, but you should consider it when buying.
CToxin t1_j9bmt34 wrote
laughs in dirac live
[deleted] t1_j9brrs3 wrote
[deleted]
blak_glass t1_j9bvhis wrote
How about the term holographic? I get that from my HD6xx and a couple of IEMs, but I also hear that others aren’t able to perceive that; especially in the HD6xx. What is it about the ear canal that allows some of us to perceive what others can’t. This is what causes confusion when watching/reading reviews. I am also a firm believer in tip rolling for IEMs to bring out the best sound profile.
blak_glass t1_j9bvkgf wrote
shalzam123_ddd t1_j9bxtfc wrote
Yeah!!! I love mine! The soundstage width is surpassed by even moondrop quarks, but the imaging and scale is out of this world.
KiyPhi t1_j9c1nym wrote
Not in my room. Reverberation and resonances were so bad, I I could clap and hear any metal in my apartment ring. Lined the walls with Rockwool panels and now everything except the bass resonances are great. For headphones, I turn on my RME's crossfeed for old hard-panned songs and get 95% of the way to speakers.
Paullebricoleur_ t1_j9c6nd2 wrote
I prefer to describe soundstage in IEMs and Headphones as a "holographic" effect, I think it describes the feeling very well
StardustNovaSynchron t1_j9cb8kp wrote
How is the width smaller than Quarks but the scale is out of the world 🤔
StardustNovaSynchron t1_j9cbvo6 wrote
Can speaker systems have soundstage and solid imaging like a pair of headphones though ? Also with speakers to experience perfect soundstage you have to sit in an exact position right ?
[deleted] t1_j9ce5oq wrote
>Can speaker systems have soundstage and solid imaging like a pair of headphones though
Yes, even a pair of 179€ Adam Audio T5V, angled at 30 - 45 degrees, will outperform ANY headphone, in regards to soundstage AND imaging! In comparison even the HD 800(S) feels like watching a 3D movie, without wearing the glasses! Be mindful though, soundstage and imaging is only one part of the experience and probably the least important one imho.
>Also with speakers to experience perfect soundstage you have to sit in an exact position right ?
Yes.
StardustNovaSynchron t1_j9cfdxu wrote
I see but on a AKG K702 I get about 200 degree of surround sound ( basically from ear to ear, dont get much sounds coming from in front of me ), to replicate that on a speaker system surely you need a third channel behind you right ?
[deleted] t1_j9cip8m wrote
You do NOT need a third speaker for the centre image. Dont you learn how stereo sound works in school? I know I did O.o
https://www.headphonesty.com/2022/01/what-is-the-difference-between-mono-and-stereo/
https://www.hifireport.com/mono-vs-stereo-the-complete-guide/
hey12delila t1_j9cjkgt wrote
Have you tried a Crossfeed plugin? They seem to be the next step in attaining headphone realism
StardustNovaSynchron t1_j9cmjnl wrote
Not for the centre image , i mean the coming from behind you channel , most of basic headphones arent capable of reproducing it ( they just reproduce left and right and centre image aka inside your head)
[deleted] t1_j9cnfih wrote
Stereo has no "behind you" information.
That is a unique feature of surround sound. You can get that with a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker system and appropriate tracks or you can try binaural recordings on headphones like this one:
StardustNovaSynchron t1_j9ct73z wrote
Some recordings do though 😂, I listen to indian music and some recordings the singer is literally behind me singing to my neck or behind me to the right side , keep in mind that some of these songs are from 80s and i usually experience is with my Fidelio X2HR ( in my experience they feel like they have literally been tuned to sound like a 5 channel system and in some songs it's clearly evident )
Nukey_Nukey t1_j9cufc1 wrote
csch1992 t1_j9cujne wrote
that what i was thinking with my fiio fh5s. the soundstage for being an IEM is insane!
takkipusa t1_j9d6sp4 wrote
Bruh what?
JTCPingasRedux t1_j9dr654 wrote
The same people also don't touch grass.
hhafez t1_j9ds2nd wrote
Where are binaural recordings though? Barely anything is binaural,
radrod69 t1_j9enmro wrote
Imagine gatekeeping soundstage. It's not a hard leap to make - there is sound and there is a variable width (stage) depending on the headphone. Is it a 1:1 experience compared to speakers? No, but in the context of headphones it makes sense to me.
SnasSn t1_j9f9pty wrote
vertical scale
LokiTheMelon t1_j9fgvu5 wrote
new here, does this include my HD660s
StardustNovaSynchron t1_j9frbhv wrote
I barely get any vertically from my K702 🤔but width wise and a sense of air it's nuts
renerem t1_j9goh6i wrote
*DT880 enters the chat
*AKG K701 and K702 enter the chat
DasGutYa t1_j9k1ax6 wrote
A lot is actually, it's a way of recording, not a way of processing. So it's not labelled like 'hi-res, hifi etc' is.
hhafez t1_j9lbmyj wrote
Point me to one major record label that regularly uses binaural recording in their albums
dylan43270 t1_j9aaj34 wrote
Speakers are just big HD800s