junglemeinmor t1_j7zo6fa wrote on February 10, 2023 at 3:37 PM

I went with utws5, 2 pin. It's a bit restrictive in terms of which IEMs have a good fit/comfort even with MMCX to 2 pin connectors. I moved to letshouer s12 pro for this.

If you have multiple IEMs/headphones you want to shuffle between, BTR5 is better.

I also find that there's some variation in comfort between the two ears(could be my ears too, but I don't think so) . Basically fit and comfort aren't down to the IEM alone.

Mayank_j t1_j7zzeex wrote on February 10, 2023 at 4:51 PM

I have just one earphone that's 2 pin (the Truthear x Crinacle Zero) and that's my daily driver especially for my usecase (i.e., gaming), it's 0.78 so it won't cause any compatibility issues with the tws module.

But my problem is so weird, I usually get downvoted to hell for this.

Pro's of the UTSW5:

it supports Aptx Adaptive so I don't need to buy a transmitter for low latency on my phone (phone has aptx adaptive) I need this coz I like to play mobile fps shooters (rip apexM)
TWS, convenience (helps me hide that I'm a boomer, audio snob)

Pro's of BTR5

Repairability: this is huge for me as the price of both is way too much for me, it won't turn into e-waste after the battery dies.
Codec: Although my phone doesn't have Aptx LL, if I buy an aptx ll transmitter it will be far superior to the above aptx adaptive setup, which is slower. Although it's just 20-40ms difference, it's a lot noticable in shooting games

TLDR: codecs and repairability

TagalogON t1_j805aru wrote on February 10, 2023 at 5:29 PM

Maybe go with the Qudelix 5K if you don't mind wires. Don't go for the FiiO BTR5 or other Bluetooth amp/DAC dongles as they have less features and are usually more expensive.

More info on Qudelix 5K (Bluetooth amp/DAC dongle), latency, and Bluetooth stuff here: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/10ky4ay/bluetooth_codecs/j5ttlgw/

The Qudelix 5K is often out of stock these days and so you'll probably have to import it from Korea if it's not on Amazon USA.

Anyway, after the FiiO UTWS3/5 TWS adapter, I don't use cables anymore. So all my amps/DACs/dongles/etc. are just collecting dust unless I'm testing new IEMs/headphones.

You just have to mind the battery life and like if the IEMs or adapters/converters are too heavy then be careful with fast movements.

Here's more info on TWS adapters like the FiiO UTWS3/5, KZ AZ09 Pro, etc. alongside adapters/converters, AptX Adaptive dongles (KB9P, YET-T10P, etc.), and so on needed for them: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/10hfuxn/wireless_earbuds_for_gaming_with_plugin_to/j58i33j/

Make sure you get the MMCX version of the UTWS3/5, here's more info about why (it's mainly due to IEMs that have recessed 2-pin ports, like the popular Moondrop lineup, etc.): https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/v3hs92/iems_help_need_a_new_pair/iaz200a/

Here's a more direct link for the adapters/converters required for the different IEMs and headphones: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/t3v7wp/looking_to_make_my_arias_wireless/hyv14dn/

Info about UTWS5 battery life (5-7 hours): https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/10yr7js/finaly_good_audio_on_the_go_utws5_and_fh5s/j803bbw/

Here's more (direct) updated info about the AptX Adaptive USB transmitter dongles (KB8P, KB9P, YET-T10P): https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zr41fe/which_lossy_codec_to_use_compress_with_before/j12cdwt/

HubbaMaBubba t1_j80378d wrote on February 10, 2023 at 5:15 PM

Do these have LDAC? There's a noticeable quality difference without it imo.

TagalogON t1_j8049bu wrote on February 10, 2023 at 5:22 PM

FiiO might add it, they're adding LDAC/etc. for the FW5 TWS earbuds, check the Head-Fi threads for the FW5 and UTWS5.

Right now the UTWS5 only has LHDC and AptX Adaptive.

For LHDC, those are only found on Xiaomi or certain Chinese phones, so it's not gonna be easily available.

For AptX Adaptive, look into the $15-20 AptX Adaptive USB transmitter dongles like KB9P.

Some of us are waiting for the Chinese dongle makers (from Taobao/AliExpress/etc.) to make LDAC/LHDC/AptX Lossless/LC3/etc. USB transmitter dongles. Check this Head-Fi thread for more info on those AptX Adaptive dongles and other Bluetooth stuff: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aptx-adaptive-aptx-lossless-usb-transmitters.961856/page-70

Here's more info on TWS adapters like the FiiO UTWS3/5, KZ AZ09 Pro, etc. alongside adapters/converters, AptX Adaptive dongles (KB9P, YET-T10P, etc.), and so on needed for them: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/10hfuxn/wireless_earbuds_for_gaming_with_plugin_to/j58i33j/

Info about UTWS5 battery life (5-7 hours): https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/10yr7js/finaly_good_audio_on_the_go_utws5_and_fh5s/j803bbw/

Here's more (direct) updated info about the AptX Adaptive USB transmitter dongles (KB8P, KB9P, YET-T10P): https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zr41fe/which_lossy_codec_to_use_compress_with_before/j12cdwt/

Mayank_j t1_j805f8s wrote on February 10, 2023 at 5:29 PM

hope u don't mind but can you look at my question too if u have time, u seem to know bout this stuff

TagalogON t1_j80733f wrote on February 10, 2023 at 5:40 PM

No problem, ya for me the convenience of the no cables is too good with the UTWS5. I also got the AptX Adaptive for low latency or gaming too and so I know how you feel, lol. Try getting the KB9P dongle and then use the USB Assistant Tool for it to enable the low latency version of AptX Adaptive/etc.

You can find it on the thread, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aptx-adaptive-aptx-lossless-usb-transmitters.961856/page-70, and a few versions should have English subs as some people translated it and posted it in that thread.

There's the Qudelix 5K for ultimate Bluetooth amp/DAC dongle device, it might be too expensive if you have to order it from Korea as it's like $110 plus say $30 or so. IMO that's still worth it but if it's out of the budget range then try saving up or wait for the sales on the FiiO BTR5/etc. Check Keepa, CamelCamelCamel, et cetera for price alerts on basically anything on Amazon/etc.

For the Qudelix 5K, with the v2.0 update, this is what Qudelix 5K had to say about latency:

> Optimized Bluetooth Audio Latency > > The new firmware offers considerably lower Bluetooth latency for all codecs than the previous firmware. Qudelix-5K doesn't support aptX-LL, but we're sure the 5K would deliver the industry's lowest audio latency over Bluetooth across all codecs.

More info on Qudelix 5K (Bluetooth amp/DAC dongle), latency, and Bluetooth stuff here: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/10ky4ay/bluetooth_codecs/j5ttlgw/

Btw for reparability or battery life concerns, check the Qudelix Forums as they uploaded the schematics or steps on how to disassemble the Qudelix 5K safely if you need a new battery and so on.

But there's now new devices like the Soundcore VR P10 TWS earbuds for LC3 tech stuff, Kenneth Tanaka's (he focuses a lot on latency for TWS earbuds) video on them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfX40jgy3Bg

It's not a TWS adapter, but if wireless gaming with Bluetooth is it, then that should be good. Hopefully in the future more TWS earbuds will start releasing LC3/etc. and also with app support so that we can EQ on their own app. There's also EQ from other apps but they don't stay applied on the device, you usually have to have that specific app/etc. open.

Mayank_j t1_j80fxax wrote on February 10, 2023 at 6:37 PM

Is Aptx Adaptive as good as Aptx LL latency-wise?

I asked a lot of people, most didn't understand my question or didn't reply but I found this guy NL Tech on YouTube he did a review of the Aptx LL transmitter by a lot of companies, Gulitech, Ugreen etc; he has a playlist called Wireless Audio delay saga where he concluded that a adaptive is really noticeable.

Oh yes I should've mentioned this before that I live in India, most of the above aren't available, we just have three audio stores, Amazon sellers charge an arm n leg and lastly for imports we pay 40 to 70 % tax(approx) depending upon whatever brand the customs dudes are smokin. So LC3 stuff is out of reach for me. And that earphone might not be good enough for gaming when comp. to my Zero. Yepp I watch n recommend Kenneths vids a lot to people, he is the go to guy for tws. I am so surprised that most people don't think to review the mics on tws like he does. Kinda bizarre when u think about it.

And I'm poor so kinda price sensitive. For example, a combo of BTR5 + an AptxLL transmitter would be equal to a UTSW5 or the Qudelix 5k (although it's outta stock), which are both at best aptx adaptive.

Sry for this long n weird essay of my problems

TagalogON t1_j82u5vh wrote on February 11, 2023 at 5:23 AM

TL;DR: look into cheaper (but still well-reviewed) Bluetooth amp/DAC dongles like the FiiO BTR3K if lowest latency is the priority.

Hmm, honestly it will depend on you. I'm like a serious competitive gamer (and watch a lot of movies/TV/Youtube/etc.), like I used to play with professional esports players, but when it comes to Bluetooth/etc. devices I know that there's inherent limitations and so for me I can just brush it off.

Like the lipsync these days is good enough. With AptX Adaptive, you can still see the latency problem especially when playing ranked/competitive/etc. serious modes. But for casual gaming, after a while you should be able to adjust.

AptX Low Latency was so weird since only a few TWS earbuds had it, like the Sennheiser Momentum 1st gen TWS earbuds, and I don't even know now, lol.

It's been so long since I've researched low latency TWS earbuds and thankfully that was the time that the AptX Adaptive USB transmitter dongles (it was basically the KB8/HaiSenKeji dongle, some of us early adopters had to get it from Taobao as it was unavailable on AliExpress still) came out because otherwise regular AptX without dedicated gaming/low latency mode was just not it, lol.

Anyway, for LC3, it'll probably take until this Q3 or second half of 2023 for those LC3 devices to start popping up. Or maybe this spring season some brands will start flooding with LC3 devices but it's probably gonna be slow just like before with AptX Adaptive and so on.

So for now don't worry too much about LC3 as it's not really available. It's just like a showcase of what's possible and hopefully we'll get USB transmitter dongles for PC usage.

Like Intel/etc. promised that LC3/etc. will, IIRC, come with the Intel AX200/210/etc. Bluetooth/WiFi cards but ya they are delayed with everything, lol. Check your computer/motherboard if it has those Bluetooth/WiFi cards as you might just need wait for a driver update to get the new Bluetooth features but yes it might never come soon.

As it's now been a few years since those Intel AX200/etc. devices were put to market, and yup no LC3 because it's only been recently that the other companies responsible for those Bluetooth standards/etc. finalized the specifications and so on.

So hopefully those LC3 dongles will come soon and still at that $15-20 price from China/AliExpress.

For TWS earbuds, there's also Scarbir. Last time I checked he was on hiatus but he has decent overviews (he separates the latency, mic, etc. sections nicely) and is basically the main database for TWS earbuds for us English speakers.

Also, ReganCipher is pretty active still these days, he's sometimes on the Head-Fi thread for TWS earbuds, this one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/page-3401

ReganCipher actually has good written reviews as he also lists a lot of extra stuff there, and he now has a Youtube channel too.

Scarbir and ReganCipher often cover that budget TWS earbuds range, just like Kenneth Tanaka, and Sean Talks Tech.

Despite being sent free review units, those folks are usually pretty chill with their reviews, and they usually mention latency and so ya, they're nice resources for TWS earbuds stuff.

Wait fml, I'm rambling, sorry about that. Anyway, I'm also poor and so I feel you, like I have to sometimes save up a lot for the products that look really interesting or revolutionary. I feel like a lot of us are poor but still keep collecting these IEMs/TWS earbuds anyway, smh lol, consumerism life.

That's why for me I spend so much time researching to make sure that I have the right product as otherwise I can't buy again. Like you know how returns/warranties go unless it's Amazon or a similar store with good warranty/returns system. A lot of companies will go in circles just to deny you a proper new pair and so ya pretty much expect no warranties/etc. when buying from China/outside of India.

Like especially with quality control since it's always hit or miss with some companies or products. That's also something I highly value but people barely mention quality control issues unless it's like really apparent.

For example, for a while the FiiO BTR5 2021 Edition actually bricked devices, lol. Like now it should be (probably) fixed, but ya, FiiO messed up with that one.

With the Qudelix 5K, similar things have also happened, but only sparingly, IIRC. I don't keep up much with the Qudelix 5K (despite me mentioning it somewhat all the time) as I don't really use it (again the UTWS5's no cables feature is a huge advantage for me) and it's mainly us Qudelix 5K owners that relay the information, unlike FiiO with their customer representative that often posts here on /r/headphones or there in the /r/FiiO subreddit.

Like right now (just yesterday, lol) there's this battery drain issue that someone is encountering and like their warranty is about to be up and there's like a bad experience with the Qudelix people: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/10xxje8/qudelix_5k_kind_of_useless_warranty_as_it_turns/

Oh shit, the OP deleted the thread, but that link above should take you there.

Anyway, again really sorry this became long (so sleepy rn, lol) but I guess what I was trying to say is that the Qudelix 5K has so much features and you rarely hear about issues with it (try reading the recent dozen or so pages of the Head-Fi thread for the Qudelix 5K though for just more info about expectations). And so it's like an instabuy, as it's basically end game material, no need to really buy anything more.

Like some people say if you don't use parametric EQ, why not buy other Bluetooth amp/DAC dongles, and there's some lists out there that show the Qudelix 5K's features not found elsewhere in the market.

Here's a more direct list of Qudelix 5K features that ReaLx3m recently wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zxd1dt/25mm_louder_than_35mm_feel_like_ive_just_been/j221re0/

So literally the Qudelix 5K is cheaper (when in stock or locally available) and then it has way more features than the competition. If that isn't a great value, I have no idea what is, lol. Some people say it's shilling to keep mentioning Qudelix 5K but ya, just look at the specs on paper and how different it is compared to the other ones.

Like a lot of these dongles use the same ESS/etc. chips and so it's like not that different, but yes some people say the implementation and so on are better with other dongles. For the most part, it's not worth going beyond $100 for dongles but ya I mean, that's how much marketing/etc. goes with the audio hobby.

Personally I'm just fine with any well-reviewed dongle with physical volume control. And so like if budget is a concern, maybe try the BTR3K or something similar that has Bluetooth and AptX Low Latency if you want compatibility. Like I often see the BTR3K on sale or something like that though it depends on the local stores there in India.

Btw, it's probably a bit different there in India, but the other Chinese websites (AliExpress is still banned right) basically underdeclare all the time, lol. So it usually flies under the radar and gets no/minimal extra fees.

Like there's upcoming Valentine's Day and so on sales for some Chinese websites, so look out for discount on Bluetooth amp/DAC dongles during that time.

There was Chinese New Year recently and so some orders may be still be delayed: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/10ukd9o/how_reliable_is_hifigo/j7ce1qr/

Here's a bit more about ordering from AliExpress/Chinese companies in general: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zav570/is_hifigo_a_scam/iynrt65/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/uwk248/should_i_order_shuoer_s12s_from_conceptkart_or/i9t7zo0/

More specific to European customers ordering from AliExpress, but goes sorta in depth about express international shipping, customs fees, delivery procedures, et cetera: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/xky24f/americans_and_europeans_ordering_high_end_iems/ipgtsuk

Here's a bit more info on AliExpress shipping times: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/uw4uq1/earbud_advice/i9q7fql/

Use parcelsapp.com and 17track.net to check your package progress. Usually it'll be a week before it actually leaves China by the airport and then the rest of the time is just waiting for your country's customs and the national/local mail delivery service.

Mayank_j t1_j83ec3j wrote on February 11, 2023 at 9:39 AM

Thank you for taking the time out to write everything, it's incredibly helpful!

I had some false memories about the BTR3K I dunno how I remembered (incorrectly) that it didn't have Aptx LL. I think I confused it with UTWS3. Now this is looking like a really sweet deal. The Qudelix is way too expensive in my country (costs the same as the UTWS5), I was looking to buy these atleast after March so I might get lucky with sales maybe. Since it has a replaceable battery it won't become paperweight after 2 yrs.

I did find a video about the btr5(similar codec-wise to BTR3K) by Teknickle but he doesn't address Aptx LL a lot. A comment below the vid does say that - if both had Aptx LL, latency is not an issue.

I can't actually discern HQ and normal audio so high fidelity isn't my main concern, ik this is controversial but I couldn't find the difference between Spotify very high quality and a lossless file most of the time so getting expensive DAC's would be a waste.

The Aptx LL transmitter would have to be imported coz there are no good transmitters here. There's Ugreen but people complain bout transmission losses all the time, Fiio BTA 30 is available too but it's price and size make it unfeasible for mobile gaming scenarios. I'll go for Gulikit transmitters, they are cheap and won't be taxed by a lot. Last time I imported my Truthear x Crinacle Zero, it was so stressful all thanks to the country's postage service, I mentioned it on the gaming sub; makes me wary of imports. I did underdeclare the cost but they managed to take 30% price due to postage etc and had ripped off the outer packaging too (like get an x-ray machine lol).

I think I've made up my mind on the combo of LL transmitter and BTR3K. Qudelix is out of stock on 2 stores which sell in India (3rd doesn't keep it) the
Qudelix price = LLtransmitter + BTR3K
But the advantage of Qudelix is I don't need a transmitter, phone has Aptx Adaptive. I've put my name in the notification box if it comes back.

>Furthermore, 5K draws its system power directly from USB when working as a USB DAC. In other words, 5K does NOT draw any power from the battery when charging. It helps keep the battery life longer, and it ensures the same battery charging time even while streaming audio.

I really like this bypass system, would work really well during listening to music.

Mayank_j t1_j8052a9 wrote on February 10, 2023 at 5:27 PM

I wasn't looking for quality, I mentioned my issues below (link to comment)

but no the UTWS5 don't have LDAC, infact they don't even have Aptx HD but I think in the best case scenario Aptx Adaptive behaves similar to AptxHD.

The BTR5 does have both AptxHD and LDAC

HubbaMaBubba t1_j80d8rr wrote on February 10, 2023 at 6:20 PM

I have an old BTR3 and when I upgraded my phone LDAC was off by default on my new one, let me just say I strongly recommend getting something with LDAC support.

Mayank_j t1_j80igga wrote on February 10, 2023 at 6:54 PM

How old is your BTR3K btw and how's the battery holding up, have you tried to replace it by any chance? (The battery btw is the same used by tws tws cases, so replacement is really easy).

I wasn't looking for quality here, just wanted ease of being disconnected at the lowest possible latency for gaming needs.

For audio experience I still go wired on my phone (not an audiophile experience ik) but luckily Oppo (Reno 10x/my phone) is a music company so it still provides an inbuilt DAC (w/24 bit 192khz hi res certified)

finaly good audio on the go! utws5 and fh5s

Mayank_j t1_j7zfrbj wrote on February 10, 2023 at 2:39 PM