Mayank_j t1_j80fxax wrote on February 10, 2023 at 6:37 PM

Reply to comment by TagalogON in finaly good audio on the go! utws5 and fh5s by csch1992

Is Aptx Adaptive as good as Aptx LL latency-wise?

I asked a lot of people, most didn't understand my question or didn't reply but I found this guy NL Tech on YouTube he did a review of the Aptx LL transmitter by a lot of companies, Gulitech, Ugreen etc; he has a playlist called Wireless Audio delay saga where he concluded that a adaptive is really noticeable.

Oh yes I should've mentioned this before that I live in India, most of the above aren't available, we just have three audio stores, Amazon sellers charge an arm n leg and lastly for imports we pay 40 to 70 % tax(approx) depending upon whatever brand the customs dudes are smokin. So LC3 stuff is out of reach for me. And that earphone might not be good enough for gaming when comp. to my Zero. Yepp I watch n recommend Kenneths vids a lot to people, he is the go to guy for tws. I am so surprised that most people don't think to review the mics on tws like he does. Kinda bizarre when u think about it.

And I'm poor so kinda price sensitive. For example, a combo of BTR5 + an AptxLL transmitter would be equal to a UTSW5 or the Qudelix 5k (although it's outta stock), which are both at best aptx adaptive.

Sry for this long n weird essay of my problems

TagalogON t1_j82u5vh wrote on February 11, 2023 at 5:23 AM

TL;DR: look into cheaper (but still well-reviewed) Bluetooth amp/DAC dongles like the FiiO BTR3K if lowest latency is the priority.

Hmm, honestly it will depend on you. I'm like a serious competitive gamer (and watch a lot of movies/TV/Youtube/etc.), like I used to play with professional esports players, but when it comes to Bluetooth/etc. devices I know that there's inherent limitations and so for me I can just brush it off.

Like the lipsync these days is good enough. With AptX Adaptive, you can still see the latency problem especially when playing ranked/competitive/etc. serious modes. But for casual gaming, after a while you should be able to adjust.

AptX Low Latency was so weird since only a few TWS earbuds had it, like the Sennheiser Momentum 1st gen TWS earbuds, and I don't even know now, lol.

It's been so long since I've researched low latency TWS earbuds and thankfully that was the time that the AptX Adaptive USB transmitter dongles (it was basically the KB8/HaiSenKeji dongle, some of us early adopters had to get it from Taobao as it was unavailable on AliExpress still) came out because otherwise regular AptX without dedicated gaming/low latency mode was just not it, lol.

Anyway, for LC3, it'll probably take until this Q3 or second half of 2023 for those LC3 devices to start popping up. Or maybe this spring season some brands will start flooding with LC3 devices but it's probably gonna be slow just like before with AptX Adaptive and so on.

So for now don't worry too much about LC3 as it's not really available. It's just like a showcase of what's possible and hopefully we'll get USB transmitter dongles for PC usage.

Like Intel/etc. promised that LC3/etc. will, IIRC, come with the Intel AX200/210/etc. Bluetooth/WiFi cards but ya they are delayed with everything, lol. Check your computer/motherboard if it has those Bluetooth/WiFi cards as you might just need wait for a driver update to get the new Bluetooth features but yes it might never come soon.

As it's now been a few years since those Intel AX200/etc. devices were put to market, and yup no LC3 because it's only been recently that the other companies responsible for those Bluetooth standards/etc. finalized the specifications and so on.

So hopefully those LC3 dongles will come soon and still at that $15-20 price from China/AliExpress.

For TWS earbuds, there's also Scarbir. Last time I checked he was on hiatus but he has decent overviews (he separates the latency, mic, etc. sections nicely) and is basically the main database for TWS earbuds for us English speakers.

Also, ReganCipher is pretty active still these days, he's sometimes on the Head-Fi thread for TWS earbuds, this one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/page-3401

ReganCipher actually has good written reviews as he also lists a lot of extra stuff there, and he now has a Youtube channel too.

Scarbir and ReganCipher often cover that budget TWS earbuds range, just like Kenneth Tanaka, and Sean Talks Tech.

Despite being sent free review units, those folks are usually pretty chill with their reviews, and they usually mention latency and so ya, they're nice resources for TWS earbuds stuff.

Wait fml, I'm rambling, sorry about that. Anyway, I'm also poor and so I feel you, like I have to sometimes save up a lot for the products that look really interesting or revolutionary. I feel like a lot of us are poor but still keep collecting these IEMs/TWS earbuds anyway, smh lol, consumerism life.

That's why for me I spend so much time researching to make sure that I have the right product as otherwise I can't buy again. Like you know how returns/warranties go unless it's Amazon or a similar store with good warranty/returns system. A lot of companies will go in circles just to deny you a proper new pair and so ya pretty much expect no warranties/etc. when buying from China/outside of India.

Like especially with quality control since it's always hit or miss with some companies or products. That's also something I highly value but people barely mention quality control issues unless it's like really apparent.

For example, for a while the FiiO BTR5 2021 Edition actually bricked devices, lol. Like now it should be (probably) fixed, but ya, FiiO messed up with that one.

With the Qudelix 5K, similar things have also happened, but only sparingly, IIRC. I don't keep up much with the Qudelix 5K (despite me mentioning it somewhat all the time) as I don't really use it (again the UTWS5's no cables feature is a huge advantage for me) and it's mainly us Qudelix 5K owners that relay the information, unlike FiiO with their customer representative that often posts here on /r/headphones or there in the /r/FiiO subreddit.

Like right now (just yesterday, lol) there's this battery drain issue that someone is encountering and like their warranty is about to be up and there's like a bad experience with the Qudelix people: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/10xxje8/qudelix_5k_kind_of_useless_warranty_as_it_turns/

Oh shit, the OP deleted the thread, but that link above should take you there.

Anyway, again really sorry this became long (so sleepy rn, lol) but I guess what I was trying to say is that the Qudelix 5K has so much features and you rarely hear about issues with it (try reading the recent dozen or so pages of the Head-Fi thread for the Qudelix 5K though for just more info about expectations). And so it's like an instabuy, as it's basically end game material, no need to really buy anything more.

Like some people say if you don't use parametric EQ, why not buy other Bluetooth amp/DAC dongles, and there's some lists out there that show the Qudelix 5K's features not found elsewhere in the market.

Here's a more direct list of Qudelix 5K features that ReaLx3m recently wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zxd1dt/25mm_louder_than_35mm_feel_like_ive_just_been/j221re0/

So literally the Qudelix 5K is cheaper (when in stock or locally available) and then it has way more features than the competition. If that isn't a great value, I have no idea what is, lol. Some people say it's shilling to keep mentioning Qudelix 5K but ya, just look at the specs on paper and how different it is compared to the other ones.

Like a lot of these dongles use the same ESS/etc. chips and so it's like not that different, but yes some people say the implementation and so on are better with other dongles. For the most part, it's not worth going beyond $100 for dongles but ya I mean, that's how much marketing/etc. goes with the audio hobby.

Personally I'm just fine with any well-reviewed dongle with physical volume control. And so like if budget is a concern, maybe try the BTR3K or something similar that has Bluetooth and AptX Low Latency if you want compatibility. Like I often see the BTR3K on sale or something like that though it depends on the local stores there in India.

Btw, it's probably a bit different there in India, but the other Chinese websites (AliExpress is still banned right) basically underdeclare all the time, lol. So it usually flies under the radar and gets no/minimal extra fees.

Like there's upcoming Valentine's Day and so on sales for some Chinese websites, so look out for discount on Bluetooth amp/DAC dongles during that time.

There was Chinese New Year recently and so some orders may be still be delayed: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/10ukd9o/how_reliable_is_hifigo/j7ce1qr/

Here's a bit more about ordering from AliExpress/Chinese companies in general: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zav570/is_hifigo_a_scam/iynrt65/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/uwk248/should_i_order_shuoer_s12s_from_conceptkart_or/i9t7zo0/

More specific to European customers ordering from AliExpress, but goes sorta in depth about express international shipping, customs fees, delivery procedures, et cetera: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/xky24f/americans_and_europeans_ordering_high_end_iems/ipgtsuk

Here's a bit more info on AliExpress shipping times: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/uw4uq1/earbud_advice/i9q7fql/

Use parcelsapp.com and 17track.net to check your package progress. Usually it'll be a week before it actually leaves China by the airport and then the rest of the time is just waiting for your country's customs and the national/local mail delivery service.

Mayank_j t1_j83ec3j wrote on February 11, 2023 at 9:39 AM

Thank you for taking the time out to write everything, it's incredibly helpful!

I had some false memories about the BTR3K I dunno how I remembered (incorrectly) that it didn't have Aptx LL. I think I confused it with UTWS3. Now this is looking like a really sweet deal. The Qudelix is way too expensive in my country (costs the same as the UTWS5), I was looking to buy these atleast after March so I might get lucky with sales maybe. Since it has a replaceable battery it won't become paperweight after 2 yrs.

I did find a video about the btr5(similar codec-wise to BTR3K) by Teknickle but he doesn't address Aptx LL a lot. A comment below the vid does say that - if both had Aptx LL, latency is not an issue.

I can't actually discern HQ and normal audio so high fidelity isn't my main concern, ik this is controversial but I couldn't find the difference between Spotify very high quality and a lossless file most of the time so getting expensive DAC's would be a waste.

The Aptx LL transmitter would have to be imported coz there are no good transmitters here. There's Ugreen but people complain bout transmission losses all the time, Fiio BTA 30 is available too but it's price and size make it unfeasible for mobile gaming scenarios. I'll go for Gulikit transmitters, they are cheap and won't be taxed by a lot. Last time I imported my Truthear x Crinacle Zero, it was so stressful all thanks to the country's postage service, I mentioned it on the gaming sub; makes me wary of imports. I did underdeclare the cost but they managed to take 30% price due to postage etc and had ripped off the outer packaging too (like get an x-ray machine lol).

I think I've made up my mind on the combo of LL transmitter and BTR3K. Qudelix is out of stock on 2 stores which sell in India (3rd doesn't keep it) the
Qudelix price = LLtransmitter + BTR3K
But the advantage of Qudelix is I don't need a transmitter, phone has Aptx Adaptive. I've put my name in the notification box if it comes back.

>Furthermore, 5K draws its system power directly from USB when working as a USB DAC. In other words, 5K does NOT draw any power from the battery when charging. It helps keep the battery life longer, and it ensures the same battery charging time even while streaming audio.

I really like this bypass system, would work really well during listening to music.