Submitted by Jfox8 t3_1262yie in headphones
Comments
andysaurus_rex t1_je7cks2 wrote
Nice! Is that DX1 a balanced amp/DAC or is it just two sizes? I can't tell from the websites if it has a balanced output or not. For $100 it doesn't need to have a balanced output, but it would be cool if it did.
maXXXjacker t1_je7fvzn wrote
6.35mm and 3.5mm single ended outputs.
exdigguser147 t1_je7wtb4 wrote
I would love to meet the person who can actually hear the difference between balanced and single ended in a headphone.
blorg t1_je85oc2 wrote
Balanced typically has double the voltage and 3-4x the power which is easily audible if you have something that needs it. HD660S is not hard to drive though.
entivoo t1_je8wq7c wrote
Balanced is not always the best I think, but most manufacturers simply put all of their resources to balanced output and input if their amp/dac has both single ended and balanced. At least for lower end amp/dac like the toppings. High end ones mostly have the same quality of sound between the balanced and single ended output or input.
blorg t1_je8y1rk wrote
It's entirely possible to make a single ended amp that is as good as a balanced one, balanced isn't necessary in that regard. But it's often an easy/relatively cheap way to add more power, at a given pricepoint, or with a particular design. Particularly with small USB or battery powered stuff.
The person I was responding to doubted anyone "can actually hear the difference between balanced and single ended". But it provides in these type of devices typically 3-4x the power, and that's a very obvious difference, if you have something that needs it. HD660S doesn't need it.
entivoo t1_je9c8vc wrote
oh wait this is supposed to be a reply to u/exdigguser147 seems like I replied to the wrong person lmao.
Shandriel t1_je8oahh wrote
I have 250 Ohms Beyer DT 990 and they comfortably run even on my Plenue D2
I mean, there must be a lot even more demanding headphones out there, but most desktop amps also deliver a lot more power...
blorg t1_je8qn2o wrote
The Topping DX1 is more like a "super dongle" than a desktop amp, it's USB powered and has power output similar to higher powered dongles.
>280mW X 2 @32Ω THD+N<0.1 %
>190mW X 2 @64Ω THD+N<0.1 %
>51mW X 2 @300Ω THD+N<0.1 %
The Fiio K7 entry level desktop amp (to take an example), does a bit over 10 times the power of this, out of its balanced. You may not need this, but it's a lot more.
Shandriel t1_je9895g wrote
I know, my desktop amp puts out 300mW @ 300 Ohm
whereas the Plenue D2 is somewhere around 10mW
yet, those are enough to go TOO loud on my 250Ohms Beyerdynamic DT 990
exdigguser147 t1_je9w0t5 wrote
There's no conventional headphone in the world that takes more than 1.5W to power under 115db You just spouting fud. You may use an amp that has a little headroom for that 1.5w but that's more to the quality of the amp than the power requirement.
Balanced outputs are for speakers, because the power requirements are much higher and the cable runs are/can be longer.
blorg t1_je9xtpk wrote
The Topping DX1 does 51mW @300Ω - 280mW @32Ω.
This is fine for the HD660S but it's nowhere near 1.5W.
Now obviously you can make a single ended amp that does 1.5W. But particularly in these small USB-powered devices, it seems easier/cheaper to get more power with a balanced output than increasing the power on single ended.
Everything else being equal, you get double the voltage balanced, which is 4x the power theoretically (and usually you'll get that into higher impedances) and typically at least 3x at lower impedances when you consider current limitations. This is a significant difference and will be audible if you need a headphone that needs the power.
Nothing about this is saying you need balanced rather than single ended for a given power level or that you need over 1.5W for most headphones (my HE6SE, Hifiman do recommend 2W@50Ω though, and I think it sort of needs this). Just that balanced does typically give substantially higher power and that is audible if you need it.
exdigguser147 t1_jea913z wrote
They recommend an amp that does 2W @50Ω because amps are not rated for power in a standard method that accounts for the full frequency range. The headphone still only needs 1.5W max for 115db and that's 750mW per driver.
I dont know what you are on about with balanced = double voltage which means 4x power. Did you read that somewhere and not question it? Balanced does double the voltage, but the current does not change so power is only doubled.
You are applying opinions and feelings to physics.
blorg t1_jeag0v3 wrote
The current does change though, current is proportional to voltage (Ohms law).
Double the voltage, double the current.
Power is the product of the voltage and current (Watt's law).
But you double one, you double the other. So double the voltage = double the current and as both are doubled, the power increases by the square of the voltage.
- 2V @ 300Ω = 13.3 mW
- 4V @ 300Ω = 53.3 mW
And this is actually the typical power you get out of 2V single ended / 4V balanced stuff.
Look for example here at actual measurements of the Moondrop MoonRiver 2 which does max 2V SE, 4V balanced.
At 300Ω, it is able to reach the full 2/4V without clipping and does ~13mW single ended, ~53mW balanced. At 68Ω, it's still hitting the full 2/4V and the power is ~59/235mW. The balanced power in both these cases is 4x exactly. So any headphone over 68Ω, you will get 4x the power on the balanced.
At low impedances, there can be a limit to current, so the amplifier will clip and you won't get 4x. You can see this here with 32Ω, where it gets 125mW single ended but only ~250mW balanced- and it then clips and distorts, rather than running out of voltage as in the other cases.
But you typically will get the full 4x at double voltage, into higher impedances.
Exactly how much at a given impedance depends on the design of the amp. But 4x is the theoretical increase in power, if current is not a limiting factor. And it typically won't be, into higher impedances. Check the spec sheets for some other amps with both, like the Topping A90D, you can see that 250mW SE but 1,000mW balanced into 300Ω. If you go all the way down to 16Ω, it's less, it's 3,300mW vs 9,800mW, i.e. 3x. Because there's a current limit. It's still over 2x though even at 16Ω.
exdigguser147 t1_jeahfqx wrote
Ok, that's all well and good... you taught me something.
But there is no single driver in a headphone needing more than 750mW of power so my original point still stands, a headphone does not need or benefit from a balanced output.
Jfox8 OP t1_je7ep9d wrote
Thanks! I believe it is 3.5mm SE only on the other output.
gruss72 t1_je7x8ao wrote
+1 on the dx1 volume pot. Feels way nicer than it should.
RChamy t1_jeacz0w wrote
It looks much better than the Fiio K3S on a desk too, does it also supports the PS5?
AngusPicanha t1_je8qvox wrote
DX1 is hella underrated
Dust-by-Monday t1_je837af wrote
I have the 660s and I just got the 6XX... can't tell a difference between them on any source. I think I'm just broken or don't listen to the right songs. I dunno.
Straight out of iPhone with dongle is fine on both. Plugged into 3V RMS Mac, they're both fine. I don't notice any distortion anywhere with either one.
lukelib t1_je8wt5d wrote
The difference is very very minute.
But I did notice the 660s was just a TAD more clear. Sold my 6XX kept the 660s. Powered by the Topping DX3 Pro+. Also the build quality is better.
This is my endgame
verifitting t1_je8yd9m wrote
> I have the 660s and I just got the 6XX... can't tell a difference between them on any source.
660 is warmer/ has quite a bit less of treble. Maybe you're not so treble sensitive.
5uperman8atman t1_je9lg7n wrote
I once had the 6XX and I thought it was a pretty boring headphone, so I returned it. Later on I got the 660S for a really good deal and I think it's utterly fantastic! So it's interesting to hear that someone couldn't tell the difference between the two. I have often wondered if maybe my 6XX unit was a little bit off. It gets so much praise that I always thought about trying it again.
Jfox8 OP t1_jeeky67 wrote
No, there is a difference to me. Same issues with boringness, I just didn’t get what all the fuss was about (excluding price). There are many on here that hear significant differences as well, so you are not alone.
emptypencil70 t1_jeg0wnb wrote
You also have to consider that people will force themselves to believe they hear significant differences because they purchased hundreds of dollars worth of headphones and dont want it to go to waste
Jfox8 OP t1_jeg5303 wrote
Not going down that rabbit hole with you.
emptypencil70 t1_jegaeje wrote
I dont blame you
vecamaize t1_je7fvli wrote
Got the same setup except dac/amp being Ifi zen air and the 660's cost me 300 green ones They do sound amazing with a little eq
Jfox8 OP t1_je7ilh1 wrote
I had that, and it is just as good. I owned the 660S in the past and really didn't care for them, that was before I found out how to use EQ. With a little EQ, these sound great.
Chok3U t1_je7a59b wrote
Nice. Thanks for sharing your new purchases
[deleted] t1_je796xm wrote
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Covert_Cuttlefish t1_je7qsus wrote
Nice, I have almost the exact same setup I sprung for the DX3+ because it has bluetooth.
MuchSalt t1_je94e72 wrote
can u use both output at the same time?
[deleted] t1_jeb9lc4 wrote
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Jfox8 OP t1_je797r7 wrote
I jumped back into the hobby (again) and thought I would share this "budget" setup. I have had countless headphones over the years, all less than $2k. While I will not say this is the best combo I have ever owned, it is respectable in my eyes.
There are countless post describing the 660S, but I prefer it over the 6XX when EQ is applied. At their original price, it is not worth it to me. At $250, refurbished from Sennheiser's website, I think they are a good deal. They came in the box and look brand new with all the accessories. I have been using Oratory's EQ profile through SoundSource and it sounds great. Bass is not as powerful as some of my planars, but it is enough.
The star of the show is the little DX1. For $100, I am really impressed. In the past I have not been a fan of Topping after owning a few of their DAC/Amps over the years. This one is not the most powerful, but for the HD660S it is plenty even on low gain. It is really smooth and the build/form factor is perfect for me. It has been nice to be able to power off the computer and not having to worry about another power adapter. The volume pot seems to be good quality as well, which was a surprise.
Anyways, not the best combo of all time, but it's good bang for buck at the moment. Hopefully I can settle with it, only time will tell. Just thought I would share if someone was in the market for gear in this price range.