Some cheap headphones are so good it's almost ridiculous. Buy the HE400SE and SHR840A.

Submitted by mistersprinkles1983 t3_12755py in headphones

Got an amp? Go buy Hifiman HE400SE and Shure SHR840A. These are <$150 and $150 respectively and honestly I think both of these sound better than HD600's with a lot of kinds of music. Honestly in some cases they sound better than Focal Bathys (i have all the cans mentioned here). If yhou want some cheap stuff to play around with, get these. I did a lot of research, and I'm so happy with the 400SE and the 840A's. They are both ridiculously good in their own right. I can describe the 400SE as a broke person's 400i and the 840A's are the M50X if the M50X sounded right. They are both spectacular.

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FourOpposums t1_jecxicl wrote

The only problem with those headphones is a small tonal imperfection, which is 90% fixed by equalization. If you use a phone just download the Wavelet app and it will do it for you.

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Corneas_ t1_jecn1l7 wrote

I want some large soundstage cans, while being comfortable (no 7XX)

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Gofa_Kirselph t1_jed5wux wrote

For under $200, the Sennheiser HD 560s or 599 are a good option. The Fostex T50RP are another good option, but you NEED a good amp for them and thicker earpads for a bigger soundstage.

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chromosome47 t1_jeed33c wrote

Have you considered the Audio Technica ATH-AD700x? (or the AD500 or 900 or whatever they call the models above and below it)

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Corneas_ t1_jeewsti wrote

Im open to anything, currently running the HD650

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mistersprinkles1983 OP t1_jed5qd2 wrote

The 800 series Sennheisers have terrific soundstage and are spectacularly comfortable.

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Corneas_ t1_jedgoxv wrote

also spectacularly expensive :(

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f3llyn t1_jeejmtp wrote

You can probably get an HD8XX for relatively cheap, used.

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dad_beans t1_jef6gna wrote

Yeah the HE400SE is stupidly good for the price. For most people, you don't need to go any further than those.

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maXXXjacker t1_jedjiht wrote

400SE is really a solid headphone. The X4 is basically its twin brother from Drop and can be sometimes had for a little cheaper. (I wouldn't really worry about which one is better as most will not be able to tell them apart so I wouldn't worry about missing out on something by choosing one or the other)

I would recommend some kind of dongle dac/amp at a minimum as I found my own desktop (alienware r13) to sound rather bland.

When I say Dongle Dac/amp I mean something a bit more robust than a apple dongle. While an apple dongle is not bad sounding per say and noticeably better quality than my desktop PC, it doesn't quite do the headphone justice.

I'm a bit fond of my Creative SXFI AMP dongle with the 400se (without SXFI enabled). I'm sure the latest wave of cheap dongles like the 7hz, Shio, iFi Go Link and such are probably all fine. I'd shoot for a Qudelix 5k if budget allows which makes for a great computer dac/amp in my opinion. For those that already have a full sized desktop dac/amp, you already have all you need unless for whatever reason your gear makes the headphone sound muffled and flat or you can't get enough volume. The volume ranges I listen at are around 65-75dB with peaks into 85dB. I do not usually use EQ with the 400se as I think it sounds good as is but sometimes a boost in bass to add a little warmth hits the spot when the mood strikes.

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Coel_Hen t1_jeesdqv wrote

Haha I have the X4, run it on the 5K, and love it! It’s my favorite headphone.

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maXXXjacker t1_jeeujf6 wrote

I got mine for under $80 on drop, unbelievable! If my X4 ever kicked the bucket I would 100% buy another without thinking if it is on sale which it almost always is around $99. I prefer the comfort and fit of the X4 over the 400se but that's just a personal thing.

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AidenBernstein t1_jedybb0 wrote

Can you recommend me a dongle for my laptop/phone?

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roladyzator t1_jeemt50 wrote

Apple or Samsung USB-C dongles are fine, but on Android phones they require some fiddling in UAPP every time you connect them to get the volume limit removed.
You can do this for free (UAPP Trial works to unlock the volume), but it's a nuissance.

Also, the Samsung dongle is impedance-sensing, which means it slightly reduces maximum output voltage if you connect low impedance headphones, like K702 or the planars.

So I recommend something like Tempotec Sonata HD II, because it is using one of those ESS chips that have 2V output and do not care for headphone impedance.

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maXXXjacker t1_jees7kh wrote

If you have the money and want to do it right, the Qudelix 5k would be my first choice and only choice.

If I need to keep under budget, next on my list would be the Creative SXFI AMP (not to be confused with the X1 which looks identical). The SXFI AMP has a LOT of power compared to other cheaper dongles. 370mW at 32 ohms. It happens to be on sale for 60 dollars. The Creative app for it is kind of trash on PC but it's usable, same with Android. You can adjust bass and treble and select from some presets and there is also the SXFI gimmick which I hate but you can turn this off if you share the same feelings about it. Works on PC/Android.

Last for me would be the Truthear Shio because it suits my tastes for neutral sounding headphones.

There is probably some new hotness out there in dongles but the only one I can confidently recommend that should delight is the Qudelix. Worth every penny.

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AidenBernstein t1_jeguh3s wrote

Got any links to the sxfi amp one sale? Thanks for the help, much appreciated

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maXXXjacker t1_jegvfm9 wrote

Yea fam, here you are.

https://us.creative.com/p/audio-enthusiasts/creative-sxfi-amp

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ganonfirehouse420 t1_jeeb0md wrote

On a whim I discovered a used HE-4XX in the classified ads.

This was a huge discovery. The seller wanted no more then 90€ for a headphone that doesn't get sold in my country.

It sounds totally natural and highly resolving. My best in ears can outperform on the detail retrieval but not on the natural sound.

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andysaurus_rex t1_jecux69 wrote

I’m just dying for an excuse to buy the 400SE. I just would never use them right now. If I had any opportunity to use them as like a secondary headphone away from my main PC, yeah I’d get them.

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hatlad43 t1_jed3xm0 wrote

So I'm not gonna need to upgrade anytime soon? Aww man how am I gonna justify my GAS? /s

Truthfully though, the first time I experienced my 400se it's just too magical. I live in rural area and the way I can try a different set of headphones is to buy one, online. At this point I'm afraid to purchase anything else as a sidegrade, while upgrading might means that I need to spend 10x of the 400se.

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mistersprinkles1983 OP t1_jed5g36 wrote

Get the 840A you won't be disappointed if you have a decent amp. They are truly spectacular for the price just like the 400SE, but in a different way.

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soldkeyboard57 t1_jed6dlw wrote

Nothing can replace the HD600 vocals for me. But the 840A is pretty dang solid for the price

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OutlandishnessGrand8 t1_jed6xkj wrote

lmao using the 840As rn as i read this, goated cans. Big step up from the beyerdynamic 770s

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L1ttleB1t t1_jedfpkl wrote

The Shure SRH840a had a very fun v-shape sound from what I remember when I had it. Great sound under $200. Last year, it was even down to $100 USD, crazy. My biggest problem is similar to most closed backs, where I can't keep them on over an hour due to heat. Also the inner earcup would touch my ears. I still do prefer the HD600 when it comes to sound though.

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mainguy t1_jedtw7v wrote

Dude I havw 560S and they are eons ahead of Focal Bathys or any bluetooth headphone and were 4x cheaper.

Full sized open back headphones will absolutely crush BT headphones, which makes sense when you think of the design constraints of the latter

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mistersprinkles1983 OP t1_jeeehof wrote

You're wrong. I have HD600's on a Fiio K7 with the balanced cable. No comparison to the Bathys (and the HD600 are >> than the 560S). Sure the Bathys aren't great on bluetooth but if you do a wired connection with USB they smoke everything else I have including HD600. You might not have heard the Bathys with the latest firmware. The original firmware sound was anaemic and kind of lame but now they're terrific.

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mainguy t1_jeeg0et wrote

Yeah I had them on OG firmware. They were fine but can't compete with decent open backs imo. Heck i'd take a hd650 over my focal celestee any day, let alone a Bathys which is quite a bit below my Celestee tbh.

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libeako t1_jeehhv9 wrote

> HE400SE sound better than HD600's with a lot of kinds of music. Honestly in some cases they sound better than Focal Bathys

Wow. That is interesting. I very much want the HD600, but too expensive for me [let alone the Focal :-)]. I have the 400SE with me now but i can not listen to it. It is too sibilant and heavy for me. I am using a 3 times cheaper Superlux 672 instead, which i love. I also had the 560S, TYGR 300, DT 880, Meze 99 - i could not accept their sound quality after getting used to my equalized, ear-pad-changed 672. This shows that one's preference can override the price comparison.

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Mr_Build3R t1_jeg8opa wrote

I wouldn't say they sound better, they sound like two different headphones. The 400SE would sound a bit vivid in comparison, but the 600s feel like a jack of all trades kind of headphone for me. It might fix your sibilant issue though

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DJGammaRabbit t1_jef0eap wrote

How does the 400SE compare to Grado sr80x? Major difference is ohms.

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mistersprinkles1983 OP t1_jef606p wrote

Both built by a drunk gerbil at 4:59PM on a Friday but the 400SE sounds better. I've listened to the SR80/80E/80X and used to have SR80 (original). 400SE NEEDS an amp though while SR80 doesn't.

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DJGammaRabbit t1_jef8iw4 wrote

How much better? I'd be using an android so that kind of narrows it down but my only hifi (midfi?) reference is the OG SR80, I had them for ten years, ten years ago. If amps are magical I may want one but otherwise I used an old PC and EQ. I didn't mind the sound of the SR80 but they were kinda bright or thin on the highs and not as boomy as I'd like, although controlled, it was a welcomed trade.

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mistersprinkles1983 OP t1_jeflgwv wrote

You have tons of options coming from android if you want better sound, starting from entry level enhancements like a Dragonfly dongle DAC (which I wouldn't use with pretty much any Hifiman headphones) all the way up to a Chord Mojo portable amp/dac and even beyond. If you want to drive more serious headphones properly though, you're going to have to do something, because unless you want to wade into the sea of IEM options out there, most proper full size headphones that are worth listening to need more juice than your android phone can provide. Also, if I had to choose between the HE400SE and the SHR840A I'd take the Shure in a heartbeat. The 400SE have an issue where if the mix is very complex the sound kinds of bunches up, sounds muddy, and you lose the sound stage. The 400SE lacks bass punch which is fine for most music but if you put something like "Who am I" By Beenie man on, you're going to be a sad panda. The 400SE delivers a very relaxed non-speedy sound that is usually detailed and does great work with vocals end electric guitar especially but they run into issues with a lot of music. An example of a ridiculously cluttered track is Champagne supernova by Oasis. On the 840A it still sounds organized but feed it to the 400SE and it just becomes a swamp in the most complex parts.Basically what I'm saying is, the 400SE is not a "This is my only headphone" headphone. It doesn't meet the cut for that. It does a lot of things really well, but it does too many things badly to be your "only headphone" and it's also seriously non ideal to run off mobile without investing $$ into a proper mobile amp. The 840A also gives you several advantages over the 400SE and Grados- it's closed back, so you can take it on the bus and not bother people. It's easier to drive than the 400SE. Buy a dragonfly, and you're going to be good. Also, based on my experience with the SR80 and 400SE and even 400i I can confidently say that the Shure's sound "right" with more music, more often, than either of those other headphones, while also offering better bass. I don't have experience at home with that many headphones long term, but I have listened to pretty much all the major full size headphones at the headphone shops in my city at some point. I don't like talking about most of them though because I have maybe 4-5 tracks each on them and not 3500 like on the stuff I use at home.

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mistersprinkles1983 OP t1_jefn0ce wrote

Another thing that I think is worth mentioning is that, depending on what you're looking for and how far you want to stretch your budget, bluetooth headphones have gotten gooooood in the last couple of years. Really really good. All the ones that are worth buying are $300 USD and up, BUT, you have a few advantages on hand. 1) You buy ONE thing and you're done. They sound right out of the box because they are self amplified. No need to buy any dongles or anything which means more junk to stuff in your bag or pocket. 2) No cables! No more getting tangled in cables or snagging the cable with your leg and ending up with headphones on the floor. 3) They always sound right. No fiddling with "Should I get THIS dongle DAC or that dongle DAC. But so and so said it sounds better with XYZ. It's a pain free experience.

My personal favourite full size bluetooth headphone that I own is the Sennheiser Momentum 4- but it's firmly in basshead territory. It has classic veiled Sennheiser upper treble and very prominent and tight sub-bass- but not in a way that makes the mids sound crappy. These headphones are phenomenal for electronic music IMO and they do vocals in a very pleasing way. Battery life is up to 60 hours and they charge fast on USB C. Call quality on these is the best regular phone call quality I have ever heard absolutely anywhere. Idk how they do it but they make crappy phone audio sound like a skype call. It's magic. Also if you're walking downtown in high wind with trucks driving past the person on the other end can't hear shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit it's spectacular. I will say that if you're going for Bluetooth headphones, make sure your phone supports at least BT 5.0 and AptX. That's going to give you the best experience. The Momentum 4 are $300ish USD and very worth it. If you're even a bit of an audiophile don't even look at the Sony's. Do look at the Bowers and Wilkins PX7S2 and the PX8 but those are starting to get into the big bucks. I also have the Focal Bathys which is the second most expensive bluetooth full size after the Mark Levinson 5909. Bathys is worth it but I only have them because I'm a curious single loser with no wife or children and I can buy stupid things that I don't need. If you can afford the Bathys they're delightful but you don't need to go that extreme coming from SR80s. I think the Momentum 4 might be ideal for you in terms of cost effectiveness and providing what sounds like an upgrade coming from your Grados.

Having said aaaaaaaaalll that, if you LIKE Grado (Grado sounds great I just hate the way they look. I've had SR80/125/225 myself) and you want good grado, Get SR325's and pick up a decent quality Dongle DAC. That's going to put you above the Momentum 4 price wise but will arguably give you better detail and a more natural sound, which might be good depending on what you listen to. Still open back though so hard to blast loud on public transit etc.

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DJGammaRabbit t1_jeft2or wrote

This is where I'm at, cycling between sr80x, 325x, gw100x and any other brand that's supposedly way better for the same cost. I emailed Grado asking very specific questions about the GW100 sound and all I got back was "the GW100 is very, very good" 😂. I'd be happy with any of these. Public transit not an issue but I do want to ride my bike with these, cables or not, I'm that guy lol. The 325 I probably wouldn't take outside.

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mistersprinkles1983 OP t1_jeftmvk wrote

Ya Grado is a strange company... All you have to do is look at their headphones. They look like they sound awful, but they don't sound awful. Very strange indeed. The 325 can best be described like this:

SR 60: YesSR 80: Yes, and then someSR 125: Even more Gradoey goodnessSR 225: Gradoey goodness with graveySR 325: Extra tasty crispy Gradoey goodness, and they painted it silver so it looks more expensive.

Every step you take up from the SR 60 just sounds like a better SR60 all the way up to the 325. Again, Grado is frickin weird. I don't know of any other company that has 5 of the same headphone, literally, looks and all, where each step up is just (It's like the cheaper one, but with peanuts).

So, if you got the 325, your reaction, almost guaranteed would be "This is better". Not, "This is different" or "ooh I like XYZ"... just "This is Grado-er than the other Grado"

I WILL say that, if the GW100 is the wireless grado, that's a stupid product if I ever saw a stupid product. Bluetooth- so highly mobile... and open back? So "Take them on the subway train and annoy absolutely everyone with your k-pop"? I don't get it.

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DJGammaRabbit t1_jefuwlf wrote

Those are perfect descriptions. The GW was made just to fit in lol.

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mistersprinkles1983 OP t1_jefvm8v wrote

Ya definitely don't buy the GW that's just a batshit crazy product. So I take it you're looking for an all-rounder right? Because you only have the Grados now so I'm guessing whatever else you get needs to be well rounded? I really think you should check out the PM3 you know.. The more I think about it I think you're really not going to be disappointed with those and if you factor everything in they're cost effective, punch above their price, and are a really truly decent and very well made headphone. You should listen to them. They scratch that planar itch very well. Inarguably superior to 400SE IMO (at 3x the price mind you)

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DJGammaRabbit t1_jefxnqm wrote

My SR80 were stolen from me ten years ago by a drug addict friend from HS. He came in to use the washroom, took a little long and when he left my pills and headphones were gone =(

I used the SR80 for every genre and even tried mixing with them which they were terrible for.

I used to press them to my head to get more bass (I even wore grass cutting ear protection over them to squeeze to my head, my poor elf ears) and when I did they were almost excellent. Whereas other boomy cheap headphones had boominess what they didn't have was control and authority down to 20hz. I want a new headphone to have the same clarity effect where in first listen you're like alright, what the fuuuuck. They sounded like a purity, like hearing an angels voice. Since I've never heard anything as good I look at each other headphone and think they can't be as good unless a higher Grado 😂.

One song that comes to mind is floyds hey you. That guitar intro just rang into my brain with such a metallic, clear and separated twang, I could taste the strings. Really made school bus rides enjoyable. I also lost 135lbs by biking with them. I put toilet paper under the pads to catch the sweat and had the cable stretching out from a backpack. I probably looked like a time-travelling radio operator ghost buster. I'll look at the PM3 but I am kinda sold on Grado already.

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mistersprinkles1983 OP t1_jefuggo wrote

One thing I do really want to stress is that the fun of collecting headphones is in the differences and getting to the point where you decide "These are for pop" "These are for techno" "These are for jazz" and you have a good rotation going. If you get any other grado below their "premium" line it's just going to be a slightly better version of the same. It will obsolete your current grados so you never use them again. Wouldn't it be more fun to buy something that was totally different and sounded totally different to add some variety to your life? Just saying.

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DJGammaRabbit t1_jefvk8x wrote

On my budget, no, and I trust Grado enough to throw money at them. I've got $200 ATM and another $200 will take another month. I started looking at headphones like 8 months ago and bought cheap Marley IEMs for the time being. I had $500 for the 325x and it slowly dwindled into groceries. I'm not sure if my phone even has BT 5.0.

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mistersprinkles1983 OP t1_jefo14c wrote

Oh sorry- totally spaced on these I keep forgetting they exist. Oppo PM3. $399 on Amazon.com (you have to click them then click see all buying options and there's only one seller).

I used to have these and had to tragically sell them when I ran into financial trouble BUT this is the one planar magnetic headphone that you can run off pretty much anything and it sounds good. You can even run them off those little 3.5mm to USB C dongles. That's not ideal, and I'd still suggest at least a dragonfly, but they sounds pretty damn good straight off a phone, and they will definitely get loud with no clipping. You get most of the planar benefits that would come with the 400SE/400i/4XX with less drawbacks (better build quality, closed back, smaller driver is quicker and doesn't get muddy, better bass). The only place I'd say the 400SE beat the PM3 is in smokey female vocals, which most music doesn't have, but if you were Dianna Krall's number one fan I'd stear you to Hifiman or LCD.

Sorry for 3 posts in a row. I'd say my 2 best recommendations that are the most bulletproof are Momentum 4 and PM3. PM3 is $100 more but sounds like $300 more, but is also not wireless, and you really ought to consider the Dongle DAC. Momentum 4 is $300 one time and done.

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DJGammaRabbit t1_jefti5z wrote

More information is always better. I have so many people telling me different things and while it makes it harder to choose it ultimately makes it easier. I think I want 325x with a DAC but would be better off with the gw100.

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Solegide t1_jeg7cve wrote

I 2nd the Shure SRH840. Haven't tried the A, but I asked Shure themselves, and heres what they said: "Acoustically, they have a similar sonic signature to the original headphones with some improvements: lower total harmonic distortion characteristics and hand-sorted drivers with matched sensitivity to ensure clean, consistent and neutral audio reproduction. The biggest changes to the new ‘A’ models are improvements to the comfort, durability, weight and appearance."

Either way, I love the SRH840.

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MourningDark t1_jedz1o0 wrote

I'm satisfied with my DT 770 with EQ and my Fidelio X3's with EQ. The HE400SE interests me a lot though but I'm not sure I need another headphone.

In the closed category I looked at the SHR 440 and 840 and chose DT 770 in the end because I got them refurbished for a low price and the comfort seemed great + they had a good reputation despite a fairly few founding their tonal balance to be too bright. With EQ I'm personally loving the DT 770 Pro and the same goes for the Fidelio X3 which with EQ sounds like a clearer version of the generally beloved X2.

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coreyfromlowes69 t1_jefznas wrote

How do the cushions on the X3 compare to the X2?

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MourningDark t1_jegq2hb wrote

I think the pads/cushions(?)feel very similar, almost identical. Yet the clamping force is somewhat stronger on the X3, although not a huge difference. They're both comfortable.

What makes the X2's much more comfortable overall though in my opinion and experience is the headband. Maybe my head is too large(or too oblong) but I have to put my X3's further forward on my head or else I feel some pain on the top of my head from the pressure.

Aside from this I prefer the X3 because they don't sound as dark as the X2(X2 retains its dark signature after using Oratory EQ preset to reach approximation of Harman Target).

Edit: By "cushions" maybe you actually meant the specialized automatic adjustable headband??? for which I know no name of and just call it headband, lol, even though technically the actual headband doesn't sit on ones head at all on these headphone models.

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fUSTERcLUCK_02 t1_jeervto wrote

Cheap headphones have gotten so good recently.
Sennheiser have the HD599 which is almost constantly on sale for less than £100 on Amazon
AKG have the K702 which has a superb frequency response and fantastic soundstage. With technical accuracy which really isn't that far behind the HD600.
The Koss KSC75. £20, supremely comfortable, superb sound signature, especially for visual media.

It barely seems necessary to spend >£200 on audio gear anymore

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Mr_Build3R t1_jeg8bh6 wrote

I've been using the he-x4 the past couple months. For something that regularly goes on sale for $80 to $100, they're really good. I like to keep my k712 at my desk, and these give me a taste of what I like about those. Plus they look pretty. I haven't tried the shures tho, I'll definitely put it on my list

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BoardsofGrips t1_jegan07 wrote

I've been thinking of getting some Focal Elex Refurbs, I do don't own a Focal and only $4XX

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CrossbowDemon t1_jedvpts wrote

Would the HiFiMan HE400SE be a good upgrade over the Sennheiser HD 558 (Foam modded)?

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Mesocorticolimbico t1_jeeej4m wrote

Agree with HE400SE. I have SHR840, no A, and they are very good but... too much midbass for some genres

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dirthurts t1_jeeb3tx wrote

I personally would take the KPH30i over either of these cans, and they're 30 bucks. But that's just me.

At around this price the Hifiman R7DX really puts them to shame IMO.

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Chok3U t1_jefpqwj wrote

While I don't have the other cans, I'm on the koss side for the cost to fucking excellent sound ratio that the kph30i have. And you don't need an amp for them. $30 and you're done.

The kph40 is my next buy. Or the ktxpro. They use the ksc75 drivers, so I'm on the fence.

Anyways if I ever get something more powerful than my cx1993 then maybe I'll get the Hifiman's and hope the qc don't suck

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