Daprosy t1_iue73hy wrote on October 30, 2022 at 5:34 PM

I think most informed people that buy the HE400SE will be EQ'ing it, so odd to review it just with stock tuning.

You mentioned that you don't value soundstage width on headphones but then say you don't EQ as it reduces this ?

I got both HD560s and HE600s with me currently A/B using LS50 speakers + sub as a reference and HE400SE once EQ'd does not sound broken to me it actually sounds very good.

Did you even try them both with oratory EQ? HD560s stock tuning is decent ish so not that much of a change. HE400SE benefits a lot.

slooploop2 OP t1_iufbgxj wrote on October 30, 2022 at 10:01 PM

I don’t like reviewing things with EQ because I’ve never actually found the technical aspects of a headphone to be improved with EQ—quite the opposite in fact, so blank slate seems to be the most controlled way to review something to me. I do use EQ for a few headphones occasionally such as taking down 1kHz on the Borealis about 3dB with a 1.5 Q filter or bringing up upper midrange on Audeze stuff, but it does take away from dynamics so I only use EQ if I’m willing to take a hit to dynamics.

I don’t value soundstage, but EQ collapses the stage to the point where I actively notice the degration.

I tried both with Oratory EQ and it really just exacerbated most of the non-midrange issues I had with the HE400SE so I legitimately think the oratory EQ does it sort of a disservice…somehow.

I’ve had people question why I don’t talk about EQ in my reviews and it’s always been bizarre to me—I’m reviewing a product in the state it’s delivered; deviating from that in a way that varies so much depending on HRTF verges on dishonest to me.

Daprosy t1_iuhw9yw wrote on October 31, 2022 at 1:42 PM

Fair enough just an odd conclusion to take. If a headphone has -10dB tuning in bass region, that could be a reason not to buy that headphone outright. If a simple EQ to that frequency reduces this issue then why is that dishonest to mention? Some headphones you simply cannot EQ as it distorts.

Similar to if you have 2 headphones, with one being much harder to drive you wouldn't review both from the same low power source, you would appreciate the different requirements of each headphone and review accordingly.

doctor-gooch t1_iufchi4 wrote on October 30, 2022 at 10:08 PM

You can’t expect everyone buying a headphone to EQ or even know about EQ.

Remember; the point of reviewing isn’t supposed to be giving you or anyone validation for liking or not liking things. It’s to give feedback to brands on how to improve their product and information to consumers on what the headphone will be like in use. EQ doesn’t really make sense for either of those things.

I understand you probably like your headphones with EQ, but reviewing a headphone with EQ isn’t defensible IMO. It closes the gap in performance and gives brands more of a handicap than they ought to have, and is overly forgiving to a product experience that will likely be worse for the end users than it would be for a reviewer with a measurement rig + EQ.

Fwiw oratory’s EQs are only usable up to like 4-5kHz anyway. EQ is a nuanced thing that wouldn’t even necessarily fix 400SE’s most glaring flaw (the treble).

Daprosy t1_iuhtya8 wrote on October 31, 2022 at 1:24 PM

People buying an open backed low sensitivity headphone that requires an amp to drive properly would know what EQ is I think. If this was a review on Apple air pods then fair enough, maybe they wouldn't.

The point of consumers reading reviews is to help them make an informed decision. If applying EQ to a headphone improves enjoyment or lessens some of the drawbacks of stock tuning it is fair for this to be mentioned in reviews. I didn't say that the review should only mention sound when EQ'd. If it doesn't improve enjoyment then that also is fair to say. Nothing dishonest about that IMO.

"Closing the gap in performance" - sounds like a positive thing for me, especially if it is free to do so.