Am I a bass-head?

Submitted by Leidanav t3_ygayz1 in headphones

Compared to my teenage daughter, I thought I had relatively tame bass tendencies. But when I read some others' posts online, I'm no longer so sure. When I make my EQ profiles, my bass target is roughly whatever volume I perceive in the mids (say 600Hz), plus 2-3dB. But what is this "bass-head", and how is it quantified?

Let's take a ubiquitous headphone on r/headphones like the HD6xx, since I'm sure a good chunk of you guys have them. Without getting into impedance matching, OTL, etc., let's just say that on my Bottlehead Crack (OTL), what sounds normal to me is a +8dB bass shelf. On a Jotunheim 2 (SS), I have an overall +11dB bass shelf.

Nearly every headphone/IEM I have uses some ridiculous bass shelf:

  • LCD-X 2021: +12dB
  • Arya Stealth: +8dB
  • ZMF Atrium: +8dB
  • Focal Elegia: +11dB
  • Monarch Mk2: +7dB
  • Blessing 2: +7dB
  • Variations: +6dB
  • 64 Audio Duo: +4.5dB

I guess I should note that some genres (e.g., EDM) and some odd mastering jobs will overwhelm me with bass with these bass shelves, but many orchestral pieces sound so dead to me without a bass shelf. Does this make me a bass-head? What are some of your bass shelves? Do you rely on an external bass boost? Or do you not EQ at all?

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Comments

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blargh4 t1_iu7x590 wrote

That's like 2x the bass shelf the Harman research says the average person likes best, so I reckon so.

I always like to compensate for the natural rolloff there on most HPs. Sometimes I add more low end <100hz on top of that, I like the illusion of the tactile thump you get from good loudspeakers, though I feel some kind of weird puritanical audiophile guilt about it.

I find my bass preference is right about Harman-average. With the HD600s I like to use something close to the first two bands of Oratory's preset: a 5.5db shelf at ~100Hz, and slightly attenuate the low mids to compensate for how that muddies them up. (beyond that I mostly let the headphone do its own thing EQ-wise, except to tame that ~3khz midrange peak 6xx-series Sennheisers have)

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Leidanav OP t1_iu7xoif wrote

Thanks for the great answer! Appreciate it.

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Overall_Falcon_8526 t1_iu820qu wrote

Bass is hugely important in classical music, and it baffles me when people consistently recommend bass-light cans for the genre.

Why not just take away a dozen instruments while you're at it?

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MorsTactica t1_iu8qzn5 wrote

Because bass is unrefined and classical music is exclusively for champagne-sipping socialites who sniff their own farts, duh

(/s)

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Leidanav OP t1_iu95uas wrote

Yeah, this is very true. A cello, for example, has their 4 strings at 65Hz, 98Hz, 147Hz, and 220Hz. If I'm listening to something that rolls off the bass in comparison to mid/trebles, cellos sound muted and downright wrong compared to real life. Obviously, many other bass-centric instruments out there.

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tomatillo_ t1_iu804no wrote

yes I would say you are a basshead, but just to throw out a guess, I suspect you have some degree of hearing loss in those frequencies, because that is A LOT of bass that most people will not find palatable to begin with.

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Leidanav OP t1_iu82gp4 wrote

Now that is an angle I had not considered. Very interesting thought that I’ll have to look into. Thanks!

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QTIIPP t1_iu8jq8g wrote

Haha yep - that’s basshead territory for sure. As some others have pointed out, that’s around 2X the Harman target bass shelf, and to my ears, is unnatural and even at times, straight up overwhelming to me (and I LOVE good bass).

Cheers

I will note that as you’ve pointed out, music choice and mastering matters a lot here too. Orchestral stuff often doesn’t have a lot of info in the low end below let’s say 100hz, so for someone who likes a lot of that, I would expect a pretty massive increase to bring it to “normal” levels.

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Leidanav OP t1_iu969cb wrote

When I listen to older recordings from lesser known orchestras, it's a total crapshoot how the mastering is done. Many of them hardly have any bass to speak of, and to bring it back up to normal levels requires quite the shelf. I guess if I end up using these same presets to pop and rock, it does hurt my ears, so perhaps I'm somewhere in the middle. Thanks!

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QTIIPP t1_iu96gs5 wrote

I still think you’re a basshead… 😋 but nothing wrong with that!

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Odd_Relative_8131 t1_iu8q2xk wrote

Bro, listen to whatever you want. Bass is the fun part of the music in my opinion.

You're listening to music for your own enjoyment only. Don't buy into the weird audiophile dogma that you have to listen to "flat" frequency response curves because it's "accurate". Listen to music for enjoyment.

If you put on a pair of Beats and love how they make your favorite song sound, you are not wrong for liking that.

EQ away. Blast the bass and enjoy "inaccurate" frequency response curves.

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Leidanav OP t1_iu972vu wrote

I do have some Beats Studio3 and I do find those "okay" as far as the bass is concerned. The rest of the FR on them are not to my liking, and the audible distortion after EQing the rest of the spectrum closer to "normal" makes them a poor listening choice unless I want ANC (my only ANC headset).

But yeah, I suppose if I'm not in disagreement with the bass quantity of Beats, I might be in bass-head territory. Good point, thanks!

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whagoluh t1_iu9qs0u wrote

Bass shelf? Dude, that is a bass Amazon Fulfillment Centre.

I'm not poking fun, haha. I have a 6db shelf on my er2xrs, a 7db shelf on my fiio fd3s, and a 10db shelf on my Monoprice M1070s. I'm very much a bigger driver = more better person.

Idk, music and video games alike sound weird to me without the EQ.

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TakeThatRisk t1_iu8hvmw wrote

I am also an audiophile bass head :D

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Wellhellob t1_iu8safh wrote

I use +3 db 60hz 0,6Q with Arya SE. Fits perfect.

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Leidanav OP t1_iu974bf wrote

Thanks for the data point!

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Wellhellob t1_iuclwee wrote

When i add more bass i feel the dynamics get hit. Its more responsive and punchy like this i think.

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Hiron97 t1_iu8uvr9 wrote

Imo, you're fine with your bass shelf. A lot of orchestral music isn't favored for the low and high end AND they tend to be at a much lower overall volume then your modern track. If the majority of your library is mainly that genre, you should be using the EQ that fits your preference towards that genre.

The volume you listen at matters a lot when it comes to AB testing... Sure, that bass boost may seem extreme if you're listening to EDM or kpop at max volume, but you can simply lower the volume... If you listen to EDM and kpop at a reasonable volume and all you hear is bass, no mids and treble, then that may be a case where you want to re-examine the overall tonal balance of your EQ.

Personally, I will use two different EQs, one with your typical Harman tuning and one with ~5 db additional bass and treble. Volume-matched while ABing testing, they're not so different, but they token the mood/genre I'm going for.

Since you used mathaudio EQ, did you tend to adjust the upper treble as well? In my experience, a lot of EQs will neglect the ends of the frequency response because there can be a lot of variability between people and the EQ creator wanted to play it safe (autoEQ/oratory).

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Leidanav OP t1_iu99cm5 wrote

I usually use Replay Gain to match the album gain, so generally, the volume issue is sorted out. Using a baffle + SPL meter, I've measured my headphones as being ~65dB for moderato, and try to adjust volumes to stay below an absolute 75dB max at full orchestral "fff". Hurts my ears way too much past that. In my chain, that's ~25% on the amp knobs.

Of course, there are some orchestral recordings that kill both bass AND treble, and I have Equalizer APO config files I can click on that adds in +3/5/7dB treble high shelves as needed for an album.

I don't listen to much rock/metal/pop, and it's only my daughter that brings EDM, so I suppose that makes a big diff.

I do tend to adjust the upper treble quite a bit, and it greatly enhances my experience. I'm treble sensitive (e.g., Philips Fidelio X2HR treble kills my ears), and many Harman tuning presets have some spikes that fatigue my ears. I turn 40 next month, and my hearing is typically goes up to 15.5kHz to 16.3kHz, depending on my health. Harman tuning presets "feel" way louder past 8kHz than the 3kHz peak the charts suggest. I will often get rid of the preset's treble entries, and replace with a -2 to -4dB high shelf around 8-12kHz, and add back in whatever dips I hear in MathAudio EQ.

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denoxster t1_iu92cf8 wrote

From your description, you are on bass head territory but who cares, enjoy your music the way you want it. I love bass myself, all my cans and IEMs are on bassy side. Few times disappointed buying highly recommended cans due to lack of bass.

My go to cans are LCD3 paired with iFi Go Blu when moving around the house with xbass activated, so yeah I love bass :)

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testurshit t1_iu97urf wrote

Those are some bass shelves my man. My bass shelf on my LCD-X is 3db for preference and I perceive maybe 1db shelf as neutral so yeah you like it bassy or like the other dude said you could have some hearing loss there.

It probably isn’t a seal issue but give it a try without glasses on.

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Neither-Welder5001 t1_iu9g3xf wrote

When I go to the symphony there is certainly enough bass coming from the lower string, wind and percussion sections. A lot of recordings lack that part. I listen to orchestral works with planers, using the default oratory preset with no adjustments to lshelf. It depends on the recording to adjust bass, I like bass but not so much to muddy the music and tire me out.

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gr8john6 t1_iu7uv09 wrote

Setting base low-shelf beyond 150 Hz will muddy up the sound. Recommendation is around 120-130 Hz. Also with such high shelf assuming you are doing earphone/headphone corrections, you are most likely clipping. You may wanna figure out the max on your system and tone it down a bit. Also, adding some convolution reverbs of locations you imagine your music is being played may add to much enjoyment. By headphone eq'ing I mean: https://github.com/iwalton3/AutoEq/tree/master/results_ief_with_bass.

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Leidanav OP t1_iu7v5o2 wrote

I don't know if it's specific to my ears/HRTF (I don't have this issue with IEMs), but unless I have it extend to 200Hz-ish, I have a huge dip around that region. I understand that I'm playing in regions where it's generally known to muddy, but that's not something I experience with headphones and my numbers.

Of course, I'm also taking whatever peak amplification, and adding a negative pre-amp value accordingly, so there is no clipping going on.

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gr8john6 t1_iu7vpxl wrote

My advice is to apply one of them AutoEq first and decide on the bass low-shelf. Makes things much easier. I mean even expensive headsets/earbud/IEMs sometimes do some crazy roller coaster ride through the frequencies. @.@...

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Leidanav OP t1_iu7vy17 wrote

That's what I usually do start with, but my ears are odd enough that I have pretty wild peaks and dips that I don't see on others' measurements and charts. I can live just fine on AutoEQ/Crinacle's PEQ files on IEMs, though, so my ear canals must be okay.

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gr8john6 t1_iu7wfe6 wrote

Ok in that case find one of those frequency sweep sounds on youtube or other places and listen with AutoEq applied. If you notice an area that bothers you you can adjust AutoEq by adding parametric Eqs.

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Leidanav OP t1_iu7wmun wrote

I'm using MathAudio Headphone EQ to use a user-controllable sine sweep to go and map out my EQ's.

Maybe I worded my post wrong. I've targeted my headphones to sound good to me, so I'm not looking to improve my EQ. All I wanted to know was if the amount of bass shelf I'm using is abnormal compared to others.

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gr8john6 t1_iu7x1hk wrote

Short answer, YES. If you are happy with your eq. I suppose it's your decision. All I am saying about those AutoEq things is that they use a well established target and makes life easier when dialing in your own Eq. I thought I could do it by ear too at first but really I go no where in my experience.

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No-Context5479 t1_iu7vtzt wrote

Bass Shelf beyond 150 is interesting to me to say the least... Anything beyond 150 Hz sounds extra muffled and bloomy to me

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Leidanav OP t1_iu7w4ia wrote

It just depends on the headphones/pads. Maybe it's the way it sits on my glasses (lack of good seal?), but I seriously have a big dip if I don't have my shelves go up that high on some cans.

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blorg t1_iu8t38j wrote

Hifiman open backs tend to actually boost the bass a bit if you don't have a good seal, you get very low sub-bass roll-off but a boost from as low as 20-25Hz up.

Example for the Ananda, (source). They vary on the extent to which they do this but most do, break the seal on a Hifiman and usually perceived bass will significantly increase, not decrease.

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dongas420 t1_iu8amev wrote

Do you wear glasses or have long hair? Seeing you add extra bass to the LCD-X and Elegia makes me think you might be having seal issues.

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Leidanav OP t1_iu96ep9 wrote

I don't have long hair, but do wear glasses that do get in the way. I did consider this after posting, and will need to experiment. Thanks!

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Wolfgang1234 t1_iuaw2wl wrote

The frame of my glasses can effect the sound of my (over-ear) headphones? I don't know much about audio in general, but is the effect of poorly sealed earpads noticeable to an untrained ear? I honestly never realized that I should have my headphones completely pressed flat against my head.

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dstarr3 t1_iu9gufn wrote

Come to the dark side

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KellyMuscle t1_iuaxc1f wrote

Best bass IEM?

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Leidanav OP t1_iuazvwx wrote

Gee, that's a hard one. I'd say that if we're just talking bass, out of the pairs I've owned, I like the Moondrop Variations the most. They have bass quantity, and sufficiently detailed enough.

Close second, to me, is the 64 Audio Duo, which has absurd bass quantity (my smallest bass shelf added, in any device), but not as detailed as the Variations. It's a pleasing bass, for sure, but the rest of the FR is not very likeable without messing with EQ, and is pretty costly (would never buy at full price).

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Nightmaresiege t1_iufs772 wrote

Yeah that's basshead territory but who cares tbh. I've heard people say the 64 Audio Nio and IE600 have "thunderous" bass like its a bad thing but I enjoy those two earphones the most in my collection.

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Mysterious_Arm2593 t1_iuh3xuj wrote

If the bass is <100Hz at 7 ~ 12db your IEM/Headphones will sound like micro woofers. I'm pretty much buying a ER4XR as doing 4db on It bumps It to 8db.

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moxeir t1_iu7v9kh wrote

Pun intended? lol

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