imsolowdown t1_iy32idq wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:08 AM

It’s not due to anything because it’s not a real effect. You are hearing things. That’s how powerful the placebo effect can be.

There is absolutely no scientific basis for the stuff you are claiming here. Unless you are using a broken amplifier, you cannot drive a headphone “incorrectly”. If you don’t give it enough power, you won’t get enough volume. That’s it. Nothing else changes.

Lelouch25 OP t1_iy32po8 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:11 AM

But I can plug in planars into a dongle Dac, and have enough volume.

imsolowdown t1_iy330ad wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:15 AM

Exactly. Do you want to believe the science or do you want to believe stupid people trying to get you to click on their affiliate links so you buy expensive shit that you don’t need so that they can get their cut?

There is a LOT of false information and myths in this hobby and you wouldn’t be able tell what’s what until you learn about how headphones and amps actually work.

Lelouch25 OP t1_iy343ql wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:29 AM

Yeah but I found the sound signature to be lacking lows. —confirming what some of these reviewers say.

imsolowdown t1_iy355y9 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:42 AM

Those reviewers don’t really know any more than you do. None of them are engineers or physicists.

klogg4 t1_iy3320u wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:15 AM

>So some headphones have more resistance

Which means they will output less power at the same output voltage, because current will be less. That's why amps give less power when they drive higher impedance headphones, because power equals voltage times current (P=V*I). THAT'S physics.

The trick here is how much power you REALLY need. Amp needs to give more power with tougher headphones - that's reasonable, but if I draw 0.2 mW with AKG K371 and need 1 mW when I switch to Beyer DT990 250 ohm, that's not a big deal.

>“Headphones with higher impedance (25 ohms and over, approximately) demand more power to deliver high audio levels.”

"High audio level" means higher volume, not higher quality.

How much power do headphones need? You check sensitivity for that. For example my AKG K612 sound as loud as 91 dB when you give them 1 mW. The trick here is 91 dB being loud enough for having a blast to your favourite track.

And despite people saying planars need a lot of power it's usually the opposite - Audeze LCD-2 for example is one of the easiest headphones to drive that I ever borrowed from people (lol). While Beyer DT880 600 ohm is definitely the toughest.

Lelouch25 OP t1_iy33gi9 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:21 AM

Right, so headphones do need a certain power to drive them because some have more resistance. Therefore when they aren’t provided with enough power it can be considered “under-powered”.

Is it taboo to say under powered? Or that they don’t sound “good” when under powered?

Am I wrong to describe the sound of an under powered headphone?

klogg4 t1_iy33miv wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:23 AM

They're only under-powered if YOU don't have enough VOLUME with your gear. It has nothing to do with the sound quality (usually... there's a little exception that I doubt you experienced yourself).

Lelouch25 OP t1_iy33w25 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:26 AM

But it isn’t always volume. There are cases where I can get sufficient volume but found the sub-bass smoothed or rolled-off.

Or you’d rather say the amount of volume isn’t high enough to render the mids or lows?

I can get sufficient amount of volume with my 250ohm DT880 Pros from amps not rated for 250 ohms. **but it doesn’t sound good.

klogg4 t1_iy34tvd wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:38 AM

The thing about "driving headphones" came out of the impedance matching thing, which also appeared in the speaker world where more powerful amps obviously had less output impedance. It's not the thing with most modern gear because most headphone amps have almost 0 ohm output impedance. Also, impedance matching isn't needed with planar headphones because their frequency response is not dependant on amp output impedance. With dynamic headphones you get MORE midbass ~100 hz and MORE treble ~10 khz when impedances are NOT matched, which is not what you want because you get muddier and more piercing sound.
This is the reason why my MOTU M4 headphone output sounds the same as my Topping L70 - it's a weak output, but the output impedance is 0 ohm;
It's a rare thing but it happens with my MOTU M4: it clips the wave when the max power is exceeded. It lets you have a louder sound but it obviously becomes distorted. Of course this is not the case with these fancy external amps like JDS Atom, it's just not possible there.

Lelouch25 OP t1_iy35h74 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:46 AM

That is very informative and thank you for staying on this, as it is an issue I’ve come across.

From other forums and reviews, I’ve learned that some He6SE can be driven to greater effect with 6Watts, much more than spec.

I also experience this with my Sundara as 300mW is sufficient but 1W sounds better. Which is why I asked if the 1060C could be driven better.

And it doesn’t seem to be “distortion”, but perhaps 🤔 it could be considered that after all.

klogg4 t1_iy35pgf wrote on November 28, 2022 at 11:49 AM

I'm out :/

But one last time - aside from the two specific cases I said above - POWER. HAS. NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. THE. SOUND. QUALITY!

Lelouch25 OP t1_iy37pm5 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 12:13 PM

So you found cases where distortion in high volume affected sound quality?

🥲😂😇🥹

klogg4 t1_iy3gdb6 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 1:40 PM

Yes, I did. But it has never been your case. If you're interested, Apple Dongle is not affected by both cases as well.

My JDS Atom amp on high gain sounds MUCH wider with Planar headphones?

Lelouch25 OP t1_iy2z3fq wrote on November 28, 2022 at 10:19 AM

imsolowdown t1_iy314f7 wrote on November 28, 2022 at 10:49 AM

Lelouch25 OP t1_iy31rdq wrote on November 28, 2022 at 10:58 AM