You must log in or register to comment.

snow2462 t1_iy289mt wrote

yeah I prefer knob for controlling output volume while maximizing software volume. I feel controlling output volume through Windows does not bring out the best listening experience.


doho04 t1_iy2a85r wrote

Yeah that's because it is. If you reduce the volume digitally it also reduces the dynamic range.


G65434-2_II t1_iy2j12u wrote

In XP and before, sure, but from Vista onwards, pretty much not. The modern Windows audio stack works in 32-bit float, so dynamic range or quality loss from volume adjustment is negligible. And AFAIK, the default sound format setting concerns only the output, not the stack workings prior to that.


Bolivian_Spy t1_iy2lx9b wrote

This is not the issue actually. The issue is that the dac on the receiving end has a limited SNR budget for it's whole amplitude range, and windows can't tell it to switch gain modes or anything like that. So when you reduce the volume digitally, you are just sending the dac samples that are scaled to the lower register of voltages that it can put out. This hurts the SNR because you reduce the signal but not the baseline noise the dac makes. Using a pot on an amp completely sidesteps this issue by allowing the dac to work at its optimal output level while making the volume lower as desired.


blorg t1_iy2sbq3 wrote

>when you reduce the volume digitally, you are just sending the dac samples that are scaled to the lower register of voltages

My understanding though, this isn't how it works with UAC2 in Windows, it sends a full scale signal along with a number for the volume, and it's up to the destination device to set the volume.

This is the behavior I see with for example the Qudelix 5K, if I drop the master volume in Windows to 50% volume does go down, but the input level displayed by the Qudelix stays exactly the same (very near 0dB for modern music, like it's at -0.08 to -0.09dB at the louder parts of a track, dropping in quieter parts).

Qudelix notes this is how it works for Windows and iOS (and Android over Bluetooth) but states that Android USB Audio does scale down the PCM samples:

>You can control volume in whatever comfortable way, either smartphone buttons or Qudelix-5K buttons, without any sound quality loss. It always keeps and guarantees the best sound quality over Bluetooth or USB. ...

>Smartphone, PC/Laptop volume control: Remotely adjusts the 5K built-in Volume Controller ...

>Unlike PC USB and iOS USB(over Camera Kit), Android USB Audio doesn't support the Absolute Volume Control. The Android Source Volume scales down the PCM sample as the volume gets lowered. For the best sound quality with Android USB Audio, you will need to keep the source volume at maximum.

While if I take a track into Audacity and actually reduce the level of the samples, the number the Qudelix shows for input level goes down accordingly- by exactly what I drop it by in Audacity. But that's not what the straight Windows volume control does any more with UAC2, it actually sends a command to the volume control on the device saying "set to this volume" while sending a full scale digital signal. It should be no different than changing the volume directly on the device, if the device supports this.


DrStefanFrank t1_iy4m8bs wrote

Thank you very much! That's really good to know about Android. I would've never known without you taking the time to write a thorough comment. Really appreciated. I guess it's the same deal with Ibasso dongles on Android and their UAC app for controlling volume and in general with dongles that allow seperate volume control somehow, right?

Now, if someone could tell me how it is with BT connections I'm all set. I usually enable "direct volume control/DVC" because the poweramp equalizer app suggested it somewhere for some reason I don't remember rn, then keep the android device on max volume and use the BT devices volume control separately.

I think it's right but I'm unsure. Should it be enabled or disabled for best SQ?


blorg t1_iy6m0z8 wrote

I think that's exactly what the special app is doing, it would be sending the UAC command to change the volume on the dongle. The issue with low volume on Android with the Apple dongle is related, by default it is set to 50% and Android volume buttons only reduce the sample volume. Universal Audio Player Pro is another app people use to be able to control this hardware volume.

My understanding, with BT it is sending a full scale signal either way, some BT devices have the option of their own independent volume but I'm not sure whether you use the volume on the device matters.

With the Qudelix and Android it will show the input at -0dB all the way down to around 35% volume and then below that it does attenuate, but not very much until you get down to the very bottom. I don't think in practice there is any issue using the device volume, not for my devices anyway.


G65434-2_II t1_iy2ncxi wrote

True that, good point! Though with modern DACs with their really low noise levels, I doubt turning down OS master volume a bit if needed (for instance to get more useable range on the amp's volume pot) would likely cause issues, but naturally, turning the OS volume waaaaay down should be avoided.


UnnecessaryMovements OP t1_iy1yffs wrote

>!it's a prank I don't have many amplifiers!<


TheGamingOnion t1_iy28vok wrote

Even on gear that does not require great amplification to run, running through a big desktop amp with a big knob is a huge improvement if only because I can actually control volume properly, on my blessing 2 for example on my iPhone, the volume tends to either be a little too high or a little bit too low, It's far easier to dial a precise volume with a physical knob.


Farpun t1_iy2mcbk wrote

It's only once I got the element III that I could comfortably do that. When I had the atom+ it would sway between too quiet and too loud very easily. The element III is great with iems.


libeako t1_iy3kt6x wrote

What is wrong with shortcuts set on the good old regular keyboard? Nothing is closer to the hands anyway.


entivoo t1_iy295at wrote

Clicky knob gang, anyone?


imthecapedbaldy t1_iy2qdsn wrote

Topping DX3 pro+ approbs

Though coming from the L30 with the smooth buttery knob, I must admit that I was fairly surprised to not be that annoyed from the DX3 click. I needed to buy it for the bluetooth function and very small footprint (L30 had a plug bigger than the amplifier).


what_that_thaaang_do t1_iy2ty6d wrote

JDS labs fans with their new amp (they love to play with big knobs)


throwawayisko t1_iy2gwk6 wrote

I use mine as a hand warmer. We are not the same.


rhalf t1_iy2362g wrote

You should try vintage lens.


WaltzPsychological20 t1_iy2tizq wrote

Stop tempting me into the lust scent of turning the physical pole thingy!!


Mullflap t1_iy2v8bn wrote

More knobs, more improvement


Able-Elk9599 t1_iy2aiyo wrote

Bought two mono blocks and turned my integrated tube into a pre amp. I like the new mono locks for the blue lights flashing showing signal strength (and the sound) plus I like the clicks when you turn them on.


agastyaseth t1_iy2ijdb wrote

For real - the only reason I bought the mojo was how cool those RGB marbles look.


1arghavan t1_iy2pox1 wrote

The bigger the better.


DrStefanFrank t1_iy4o9ss wrote

I thought about that some time ago.

An Amp that's basically just a mountable big knob called "The Knob". Offering different turning ranges, adjustable "click" intervals, firmness and loudness (of course including full and softer half clicks!) as well as adjustable resistance (and perhaps even adjustable dead range or whatever it's called in english with spring action) in "smooth mode", which obviously would have to be absolutely buttery smooth.

I'm sure as long as it had a solid high quality amp, excellent machining and craftsmanship there would be a market for such a ridiculously wonderful product!


Tozzpot t1_iy2gkw2 wrote

They're called "Reviewers", mate. Tad harsh


staybythebay t1_iy3oxku wrote

That's the reason I bought a Questyle amp, and it's also the reason I'm saving up for a Violectric. Knobbage is a big thing


writing-nerdy t1_iy3r1u6 wrote

I know someone who has an HDV 820 purely for this reason. I was both ashamed and impressed at the same time.


ArkhamKnight0708 t1_iy3w2bo wrote

I bought my A90 purely for the knob and switches. I've never come close to using all the power but I also don't care. Knobs are fun :)


vincentquy t1_iy43o36 wrote

The bigger the knob, the more better.


hyde0000 t1_iy4qgzn wrote

Not gonna lie, part of the reason why I sold Burson Playmate 2 is because I can't handle their digital knob, drives me crazy. Keep bouncing back by 1 when I turn and stop.

Analogue knob is the way to go.


Taraxian t1_iy57xvl wrote

I remember the story about Brian Wilson having them give his dad a fake mixing board with knobs and sliders that didn't really do anything to make him feel included in the production process


FlostonParadise t1_iy8ixhj wrote

Only reason I own the Klipsch Heritage amp/dac.

Delicious knobs and switches... Maybe it does something to sounds, idk