Submitted by D00M98 t3_z6ug5c in headphones

I just want to share my experience between Sennheiser HD660S vs Hifiman Sundara, particularly on imaging, instrument separation, and soundstage.

https://imgur.com/7QtQ9WW

Previously, I thought Soundstage is everything for realistic and enjoyable experience. Now I have experienced HD660S, I feel now that Imaging has a bigger effect on realism or immersive experience.

Here is how I define (or feel) these parameters:

  • Imaging: this is the 3-dimensional mental positioning of the sound. This includes angle and distance. (Note that when I say imaging here, this is for music only and not absolute directionality for fps gaming, because neither of these 2 headphones are good for fps gaming).
  • Instrument Separation: different sounds that occur at same time, can be heard as distinct instruments.
  • Soundstage: size or distance where the sound is coming from.

HD660S is more intimate, as everything is in smaller scale. But in this smaller soundstage or environment, it actually produces more imaging information and instrument separation. I feel like I am on the stage with the band. Vocals are very forward. My mental image of vocals are typically less than 5 feet in front of me. Then instruments are just slightly further away, like 5 to 20 feet away. Even in this small soundstage, there are multiple layers to the sound. Some instruments sound closer, while others sound further away. As result, I feel more 3-dimensional imaging. And when different instruments feel like they are at different distances, this also adds to instrument separation.

Sundara has larger soundstage for sure. I feel like I'm in the 1st few rows in the audience listening to the band on stage. Everything feels bigger. Vocals are more distant. And then the instruments are even further away. Sundara has good instrument separation. I can clearly hear each instrument distinctly. However, Sundara feels 2-dimensional with instruments, in that they are all at similar distances and not layered.

As with many mid-fi headphones, Sundara does a good job. The 3-dimensional feel comes from combining vocals and instruments. Then HD660S takes it to another level, by adding layers of information for different instruments.

What is more important, more enjoyable, or more realistic? Probably depends on the music you listen to and your preference. Before, I thought soundstage is more important to provide that immersive experience. For sure, having soundstage vs no soundstage is the first step. But now I have heard HD660S, I feel the imaging and the layering (even within a smaller soundstage) actually results in more realistic and immersive experience.

HD660S was not price competitive previously, as it was $400-$500. But HD660S price has come down recently. I got it for $250 for refurbished from Sennheiser (but not always available). It is $300 new on Amazon, from 3rd party stores. Basically Sundara and HD660S are the same price now.

I bought the HD660S thinking it was something I can use for vocals. I wasn't expecting it be an all-around headphones. I was really surprised how well it performed technically, and how it actually outperformed Sundara. It kind of throws out my incorrect assumption that planar magnetic has better technical performance.

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iBanshe3 t1_iy38mqn wrote

Ahh the German engineering šŸ˜œ

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aless530 t1_iy3gcud wrote

Wow... I completely agree OP. Finally, someone that isn't just "soundstage.... le bad" and sctually has a nuanced take on it. But which more resolving? The 660s or the 600/650. I keep hearing mixed things on that front...

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wiggan1989 t1_iy3hhjm wrote

I have both 6XX and Sundara's the former I bought last week, and I can confirm that the imaging is better in the 6XX, just seems like more fun headphone. However, the Sundara is more technical and has better bass for me. I feel like I'm covered at all angles with both of these

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PLOHNO t1_iy3ho8l wrote

If I was forced to keep only one headphone in my signature, it would be the 660S. It doesn't have an enormous soundstage or jaw-dropping detail. However, it's viscerally engaging most of the time, I never leave the office and worry about dropping it, collecting dust or pollen outside or the dog eating the cord because I can have another one delivered in a day or two without losing sleep over cost. Also, I can dance and bang my head without the damn thing falling off my head.

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shadowpapi9890 t1_iy3ly2p wrote

Hd660s are my favorite headphones because they image so incredibly well. I prefer imaging to a huge soundstage any day. They sound holographic like only my aeon flow open or lcd-x can but I think the hd660s are even Better at that.

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ku1185 t1_iy4hb5c wrote

After a certain point, I started referring to to soundstage size, imaging, separation, and layering all under the umbrella term "staging." Big soundstage is not always good, and small soundstage is not always bad. It's how all these things come together that makes it enjoyable for me.

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PLOHNO t1_iy556sl wrote

Look ā‰  bang. HD800 falls off when I tilt my head forward. LCD-XC will shift and lose its ideal position for listening when head banging to rock. Small head. Iā€™m 50 and shop in the kids section for hats.

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pathos12 t1_iy56efe wrote

I feel you on the LCDs, mine slide forward - that was kinda my point. I didn't realize the HD800s would fall off worse than the LCDs, especially when they're roughly 200g less in weight. Guess the clamping pressure? Never worn a pair of 800s.

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PLOHNO t1_iy57mt7 wrote

I purchased the HD800s 3rd hand from A/V Exchange and clamping force was a concern. Fortunately, I can refrain from sudden movements when listening to jazz at the desk.

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pathos12 t1_iy79o0u wrote

I'd like to start picking up a few different things in the future. Kinda going to keep my eye on Focal ELEX's, maybe HD800s? Unsure. I know the for sure would be the Focals.

Just need to keep an eye on A/V Exchange and such.

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