Submitted by icanseeyourpantsuu t3_z2bw3p in headphones
100Ω "output impedance" Amps and 600Ω DT880.
I think I'm a bit deep into this rabbit hole already and is now looking for amps with this specific rating.
Or is this a myth? as im only seeing <0.1Ω output impedance rating on amps being recommended in here.
how would this compare to an amp lets say with a rating of 400mW @600Ω but only has an "output impedance" rating of <0.1Ω or 1Ω or near 0Ω?
You generally want as low of an output impedance as possible to have a high damping factor ratio. If you use a higher output impedance with headphones that are too close in load impedance (usually any ratio closer than 1:8), than it may have an impact on the headphones frequency response and change how they sound. Some pairings use this for specific changes, but usually you want a generaly low output impedance, even if the load impedance is higher
400mw at600 is just something i madeup to be an example. To put a better example there is the topping L50 rated 290mW @600ohm but only has <0.1ohm output impedance. How would that compare to something like the HA400 rated 40mW @100ohm but has 80ohm output impedance, and versus the Samsom S-AMP rated at 100ohm output impedance? these 2 only has a 1/4 TRS input in them
This guy explains and busts the myth. But basically, with higher resistance like 600 ohms, you're gonna want higher impedance amps unless you want to risk coloration of the headphone frequency.
Thats where i came from.
Only two ways to find out then, amirite!? lol
Diy audio heaven measures headphones with varying OI
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-a-i/dt880-edition-600%cf%89/
The 600ogm 880 does not change, some lower impedance headphones may, here is the 560s
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd-560s/
It's possible that higher OI amps may on their own add warmth, or mess with distortion in some way to increase perception of low end
I find that higher OI amps can power higher impedance headphones easier
I can only find the bottlehead crack with this spec, do you know of any other?
The really low Output Impedance amp devices can be suited for a wider range of even lower impedance cans too…. Sometimes even IEMs if the amp has a low noise floor. Low impedance and medium impedance options.
Lots of power into low and high impedance… voltage on one end and current on the other to make the power rating with the impedance (resistance)
These can vary by amp how much voltage and current they have driving various impedance loads hi and low.
You can use pretty much any pair of headphones with any amp that have less than the 8:1 ratio (headphones to amp) … some will give good results and some will give bad.
Oratory1990 even talked about how a less than 8:1 ratio can be ok to a certain extent with certain headphones and the amp pairing that isn’t 0.1ohm OI. Or 1 or whatever.
Certain lower voltage and therefore power amps with or without high output impedance can be great with the right headphones. It just depends on the system and you and what you are listening to.
I think the guy in the video mentioned so amps from Beyerdynamic. He also has a playlist for some other cheaper amps for higher than 300 ohm impedance headphones.
If you’re of the opinion that an amplifier should not color the sound, them lower output impedance is better. Ideally close to zero ohms. It means your amp can drive more current without the voltage sagging, which is a good thing.
If you like how the amplifier colors the sound, that’s also fine, but its the mark of an objectively “worse” amp.
Can you give an example of the 8:1 ratio and amp?
It just means an amp with a 0.1 ohm impedance can remain totally flat on the output within its 20-20k range without the OI and headphone interaction affecting the frequency response.
Like 32 ohm headphones on a 1 ohm OI, ratio is 32:1
If it were a 4 ohm OI it’s 8:1 still flat
If it’s a ln 6 ohm oi it would be 5.333:1 with some some frequency response impact for good or for bad. It depends on the headphone impedance curve and the listener and the final FR.
is there anywhere where i can read up on why that ratio is 8:1? why is it specifically 8:1?
8:1 is just the common middle ground that has been accepted, but oratory goes into it a little more in section 3 of this post https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/ugofb0/why_can_measurements_from_different_sources/
Tl;dr while 8 times is the generaly accepted ratio, there's no reason its specifically that, as even an 8:1 ratio can cause a 1dB difference in the frequency response of the headphones due to the damping factor. so a higher ratio can still be more desired for less of a change in FR
That's literally the opposite of what's true.
You want a high dampening factor to avoid a change to the sound. The dampening factor is load impedance divided by output impedance.
So, higher headphone impedance (which is the load impedance) leads to a higher dampening factor.
Or in other words, you can get away with higher output impedance on the amp if you have headphones with higher load impedance.
I prefere my high ohm dynamics paired with my Beyerdynamic A20 (100 ohm output) or my high z OTL. Imo the HD800 and HD600 benefits from a higher z amp. Slightly elevates the bass and makes the sound less fatiguing because of the lower damping factor. Very nice with slower music genres like female vocal jazz etc. It's a personal preference thing, but if you listen to a lot electronic music, it may not be ideal with a low damping factor.
This is what im after about. A guy on youtube said that the 600ohm dt880s does not need more than 100mW @600ohm and that it's more on output impedance matching where the 880s require a 100ohm output impedance match.
So im looking for Amps that has this specification or would closely perform like it. So far, i only found the Bottlehead Crack which is rated 120ohms of output impedance, but it's at 349usd. I'd like to keep my budget under 250.
The Samson s amp has a 100 ohm OI, It's pretty cheap and works well, I'm not sure of it's exact measurements but it works well enough
Man, thanks for the reply but sorry i dont understand.
I made this post because a guy on youtube said that the 600ohm dt880s does not need more than 100mW @600ohm and that it's more on output impedance matching where the 880s require a 100ohm output impedance match.
So im looking for Amps that has this specification or would closely perform like it. So far, i only found the Bottlehead Crack which is rated 120ohms of output impedance, but it's at 349usd. I'd like to keep my budget under 250.
Yeah ive seen this recommendation but this particular hardware has been phased out. I did find the HA400 from behringer but from the reviews ive read, most found it bad.
It's available new on eBay, I bought one for about 30$, works great for me
Have paired it w/ a 600ohm?
Yes, the 880 in particular as well as the t1
How is it and what amp do you u usually pair your 600ohm 880s with?
I usually either use a dark voice or magni heresy, or my phone which has a proper amp.
It works well and because of it's higher OI, it reaches comfortable sounds earlier then the magni
So compairing the s-amp vs magni/darkvoice on the 600ohms, are the 2 miles better than the samson?
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I wouldn't say better, but the s amp is great for the price and it does boost low end on some models
Hi, im not that deep into this hobby. Infact this will be my only headphones and would probably get an iem after, and thats it.
With that, which amp would you recommend to optimally drive the 600ohms dt880 under 250usd aside from the s-amp? i would like to get suggestion for a tube and a solid state, and go from there.
Schiits new magni has proper dc protection, and they're cheap, cant help you with cheap tubes, but many exist, they do objectively have worse distortion and such measurements, but do add character
thank you so much!
Is DT880 600 ohm with 100 ohm an industry thing?
If so, Then get an amp with around 7.75+ volts into 600 ohms with a 100 ohm OI
That’s approx 100mw into 600 ohms raw RMS without the complex impedance curve of the headphone and the interaction with the OI of the amp
You can drive high impedance headphones with low Ouput Impedance amps but the higher output impedance options are like a nice analog EQ very tasteful sometimes
WoodenSporkAudio t1_ixflqdo wrote
Depending on the Frequency response impact from the OI to headphone impedance ratio for the actual impedance curve oh the headphones, it could have a nice bass boost and other up or down from totally flat output with slightly less than 1:8 ratio at 1:6
600ohm cans have a lot more Lee way than a pair of 32 ohm cans for this kind of thing. It can be quite nice with the right pairings, but the prevailing notion is not the only answer, especially for high impedance headphones.
Amp could suck too. So try it out if you have it.
What amp is it? Can’t compare to two hypotheticals with a couple stats.
400mw into 600 ohms is just over 15 volts, which is pretty high.