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TL/DR: They are way too mid shouty for me, even more so than some Sennheiser's I've tried.

Auditioned on a Topping E50 and A90D.

Hopefully this can save some folks some money if they are looking at these and have similar preferences to me.

First the positives: the dynamics and resolution are amazing. Best so far from what I've tried. You can hear everything. They are very comfortable and look like a piece of art in real life, no exaggeration. My wife barely gives a shit about headphones and was making lots of comments about their looks. The bass impact isn't super pronounced at the very lowest end but has really good slam when it is there. While the soundstage is small, it is very very precise and would be good for a gaming/music dual purpose if you like the other qualities.

Now the negatives: The timbre is very metallic. I'm usually an "each their own" guy, but I legitimately don't understand how anyone thinks these sound natural. Maybe on something not solid state? Not sure. The real issue I have with them though, is how forward the mids are. For me, things like the 560s are too mid forward which gives male vocals and other pieces of the music just way too much energy vs the rest of the track. It makes the track sound like everyone and everything IS YELLING ALL THE TIME. These take that senn mid forward approach and push it to 11 for me. It doesn't really measure too hot, but I think the increase in dynamics really double down on this effect. My ears legitimately hurt after listening to these. I like my music on the louder side, but have learned to not go crazy after watching a couple friends get tinnitus. I have no issue listening to these volumes on some of my other sets which I'll go into more later. Also, after coming off of my Sundaras, the music sounds too constrained. That is partially from the smaller soundstage, but is really doubled down because the treble is being buried by this mid bump.

I have tried pulling the mids down around 1250 using PEACE but it loses a lot of dynamics very quickly doing that and I imagine that is why they are tuned this way in the first place.

At this point, I've tried basically every mid-fi headphone "style" and am working my way up the stack.

Some stuff I've tried and don't like.

Beyer DT 1990's (they sounded awesome but the sibilance was eventually too much)

beyer 900 pro x (worse 1990s)

Sennheiser 560s (Too mid forward)

AKG K712 (too dark).

​

Some stuff I do like.

Sundaras(still my fav so far just not enough bass energy for me. looking at the aryas. These sound so ethereal, have really decent bass roll-off, and are very precise with a wide sound stage. If these had slightly punchier low-end, I wouldn't be looking to upgrade at all. The only real unnatural timbre I hear are "lazer" type sounds. They come through HARD, but honestly I really like that, feels like my brain is getting scratched. If you have these, go listen to "Da Funk" by Daft Punk and tell me the lazer part of the track isn't piercing your brain.)

Grado SR60x(Super fun but very fatiguing. They get pulled out once a month to listen to some female vocals at 11)

Sennheiser pc38x(Use these for my ps5 and are scary good. These are my hardest rec for newer audiophiles/gamers. If you don't own these, buy them and use the darker pads which help balance the upper mids for me)

Beyer 770. (I love these headphones so much. I've owned them the longest. They are on the treble heavy side without melting my ears and my only true closed backs)

Harmonicdyne Zeus (I don't usually like a darker headphone, but these are just too good. Listen to some funk or concert hall music on these and you are literally there. Just not enough low end for my tastes)

Stuff I'd like to try/where to head next:
I should have just followed the "buy once, cry once" method and bought the Aryas. I need more oomph in my bass and that seems like the best way to get it without losing the qualities I like in the Sundaras.

I also really want to try some AEON noires, but the measurements look so funky I need to find a place to try them before buying. I can't trust reviewers because almost every one out there likes things more mid forward or darker than I do

Just curious but how old are you? I ask as I’m 21 and I had the same issue with the og clear but not with the radiance or clear mg.

Older half of 20s but my ears are still really sharp. (I still pass the young person can hear the high pitch buzz noise test lol)

I just got the elegia, (same driver dome but different magnet structure) and I feel the same about the upper-mids being too shouty. I found the dan clark tuning filters help A LOT! I just pop one behind the pad and it smooths thing out. I believe burn in will help tone it down and little, but for now the DCA filters are great.

Gotcha, was curious if age played a factor in it as we may be more sensitive to certain frequencies. Nice desk btw, mine looks the exact same except for the countertop choice. Also, I have the noire, Arya v2 and v3, love all of them.

Thank ya thank ya

Yup... That's Focal alright

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Interesting. I might see if I can source some filters before boxing them up and sending them back. Thanks!

Yup sounds like Focal (to my ears at least). The only 2 Focal headphones I like are the Clear MG and the Radiance. Overall I like warmer sounding gear so it makes sense

Hd660s. Try those.

They roll off harder than the 560s I owned and measure even hotter in the mids. They may be good headphones but definitely not for me.

Strange, the DT 770 (250) is a lot harsher on the treble than the DT 1770, is the DT 1990 really THAT different from the 1770? I did have the treble peak EQ'd down a bit on the 1770, but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as the 770. Did you try to EQ the 1990 to remove the sibilance?

Ear sizzling is the best way I can describe the 1990s. The 770s had a bit of sibilance too but acceptable for me. When I owned the 1990s(about a year and a couple months ago) I wasnt very knowledgeable about EQ yet. If I owned them today, I'd definitely give it a shot because they were great otherwise. They were very heavy too which I didn't think I'd ever care about but was pretty noticable. I just feel like I get 80% of the sound with the 770s and have found signatures I like better at this point.

As I was reading your impressions, my thoughts were you would probably like the Hifiman tuning...

> Sundaras(still my fav so far just not enough bass energy for me. looking at the aryas.

If the Arya's are on the table, and you want more dynamics and tactility, also consider the HE6se v2 - assuming you are based in the US.

https://www.adorama.com/hmhe6sev2.html?emailprice=t&sterm

Some people have found it to be a bit of lottery with these, but all I can share is my own experience, which I've owned since March of 2021, and has been flawless. Your amp should be able to drive them too, and if anything, it may finally be getting a real workout. :)

>and I feel the same about the upper-mids being too shouty.

You don't even get the idea. The dude will DIE listening to Elegias! They're extremely shouty even for me :)) Focal Clear is a lot more balanced headphone than Elegia

Ahem… try ZMF.

Yeah... The Elegia doesn't make me super happy.

I completely agree with this recommendation!

That's good to hear. I had the same issue with the Clears so I traded them for a pair of Radiance

I will definitely take a look. Thanks! I am a bit confused by the he lineup altogether and how it fits in with the sundara/ananda/arya lineup. Looks like I need to do some more reading.

Which ones should I look into? trying to keep it around $1200 or lower and don't know a whole lot about them.

I adore that headphone, it’s gorgeous too

Sounds like you might prefer the HD650 or the new Meze cans.

30s and Clear were way too sharp for me so I gave up on them.

Hey, question for you. How do the sound qualities of the arya v3 and the noire line up in your opinion?

Yeah, it is not very straight forward. This is why it's easier to use MSRP to understand how the company views the hierarchy of their own product lineup. When using this approach, Hifiman apparently values the HE6se v2 above the Arya - regardless of what the actual street prices, and people's opinions/feelings, are.

Between the two, the HE6se is the more punchier and dynamic pair (arguably, even rivals the Susvara, in this regard), whereas the Arya has the more impressive headstage with a meatier low end rumble (at least the Stealth). You can always apply EQ to the HE6se to add more quantity to the sub bass region, but the comfort leaves a bit to be desired, which the Arya fairs much better being lighter while also having a subjectively better suspension headband design.

So it's a matter of what the balance of features you value more.

They’re going to sound better the more you keep using them. I know that the running-in process/period is a controversial topic amongst the audiophile community, but I have had the exact same experience with my Elegias, Clear MGs, Aryas, Poseidons and HS660Ss. Personally I think it’s not a myth and the drivers need their time to calibrate. Just be patient and do lot lose it. You’ll be having euphoric experiences listening to them soon, if you’re patient enough 😉

Sounds like I won’t like the OG as I’m also sensitive to that upper midrange frequency. I find HD600 too shouty and I can’t turn up the volume too much because of that. Recently bought the HD660s and I find it to be much more balanced. I can crank up the volume without hurting my eardrums by shouty vocals. I haven’t tried the Clear OG but I’ve listened to the MG. I didn’t find it to be shouty so I think the tuning of the MG is more to your liking.

it's your brain that adjusts over time, not the drivers - these don't change over the life of the headphones

No offense meant, but I cannot be be sure making such a statement. How can we be for sure? Has there been a verifiable validateable scientific experiment on this? I personally switch between my headphones to make sure that I’m jot getting used to their sound signature which helps avoiding bias. What U can tell from experience is that mew headphones sound like crap regardless of brand if driver type. From materials science point tod view though it may make sense to me that the drivers calibrate over time and adjust 🤷🏻‍♂️ We seem to need some funds to run unbiased scientific experiments 😉

I thought the focal clears were shouty as well. Sold them. Does this mean I would have a similar experience with the Focal Utopias?

Second the recommendation of the HifiMan HE6se!

Just got mine in and listening to them. Actually bought them because of your post! I’m enjoying them quite a bit honestly.

utopias are a probably a little less peaky in the mids but similar character. I don't find them "shouty" but the timbre is a bit off, I EQ them.

You can look for a second hand Auteur OG.

Neumann NDH-30 is something you should try.

I been rocking the HD650 for years and was considering these, but I pulled the trigger on an older model HD600 instead. Comfort wins in my book

I share similar experiences, but more to the point, it always ends up being the pads needing to wear-in/soften with extended usage.

The Arya and Ananda were notably a bit too hot for me to listen for long, when they first arrived, but over time they eventually "mellowed out". This was unsurprisingly reproducible for me by buying brand new stock pads, swapping them out, and experiencing similar levels of listening fatigue again - but it only took a day or two to get readjusted, and not hundreds of hours, like some would suggest.

With Focals that have stiffer foam padding, I also have similar sentiments as well, and the Clear OG happens to be one of them. Although, I will say that the replacement Clear OG pads (which, seem to only be exclusively sold through headphones.com) are on the softer side, and I didn't notice nearly as much of a difference compared to the original pads that came installed out of the box with the Clear. Then again, Focal aren't exactly known for consistent QC with their pads anyway...

Aeolus. Not the best resolution, but excellent timbre and they're just so enjoyable to listen to.

If only the QC wasn't this horrible on HE6se.

560s "too mid forward"? Are you referring to the 4 to 6 kHz peak? Just EQ

Yeah, if the Clear OG is too shouty for you, then the Utopia (at least the pre-2022 versions) will not be any better, unfortunately.

Yeah. Like I mentioned, it seems like some are playing the lottery with these, but I can only speak for myself. Considering the number of Hifiman headphones that I currently own, I would think I'd have been bitten by the QC bug at least several times over, so either I'm the luckiest person in the world, or the failure rate (while 100% is a very real thing) is perhaps not as large as this vacuum makes it out to be.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Thanks for this. I'll take a look

The Dekoni Stella leather ear pads supposedly cut down that honky midrange area (more in the 1.5k to 2k area) and lift the frequency below 1khz. If you like the rest of the Focal Clear OG this may do the trick for you. I have ordered a pair of the dekoni earpads but for maintenance reasons; the stock earpads inevitably degrade relatively quickly.

HD650 is a reliable go-to. If I had only learned to stop there

We are propagating the cult of ZMF bro lmao 🤣

If you dont like “shout” that may tell me you wont enjoy harman-ish tunings so I wouldn’t tell you to buy an Auteur (buy it tho) which is my favorite headphone they make and I see it as the upgrade to get if you enjoyed the HD650 or 6XX but it leans towards the harman target a bit which has the upper midrange emphasis (i dont think it was intended, they were just looking to make a more “neutral” headphone while still retaining the ZMF essence and that was the result.) I would recommend to buy used since you can find them at amazing prices; the Atticus and Aeolus are very separated from that type of sound signature, the upper midrange is more relaxed so you wont find any “shout” even if you tried, even the Eikon which is basically the closed back auteur doesn’t have too much emphasis in that area as the auteur but that one is a bit too bright for me.

But… big but im still going to say to try and get an auteur (preferably the new model the auteur classic since it has an improved driver) because the realism of the midrange timbre is just excellent, you wont find any hints of metallic timbre anywhere on any ZMF headphone and that was a big factor for me becoming a fanboy of ZMF headphones. Realistic Timbre every day and twice on Sunday.

Now, one advantage (and disadvantage in a good way) these headphone have is that you can change the pads and those pads can change the sound of the headphone to your liking. Its a double edged sword because you’re going to spend money on pads just so you can have peace of mind that a certain pad is the one you like but Zach and the community are there to help you choose which pads will suit your sound preferences.

>AKG K712

So these are dark ? that's interesting, can't wait to try them then, they are about 150$ in my country (not sure if that's a good price for them)

I thought they were gonna be the same with K701/K702 where both of these have peaky upper mid and elevated low to mid treble, at least that was what I heard when I auditioned K701/K702 in the past.

I had the same experience with the Elear and the Utopia as well. Focal is not for me.

I highly recommend you to go with the ZMF Aeolus or the Auteur Classic if you have the budget.

Thanks for this detailed writeup! Did all the legwork for me! I'll definitely be picking up a pair to try myself in the near future, even if I do end up with an Arya as well.

Did you replace the pads on the SR60x? Grado pads are terrible.

My pleasure, you wont be disappointed.

Go for Hifiman HE6seV2 (new for $449 or open box for $429).
Buy a cheap speaker amp from AliExpress and a XLR female to bananas male adapter.
Get open grills, change the pads and the cable, do the bass boss.
GG.
Enjoy audio Nirvana!

I'm super glad to hear that. The soundstage and separation are good for a closed back.

The 1770s have something like 5 dB less treble than the 1990s, normalized to 1000 Hz. They're either missing treble (except the peak) or have too much mids depending on where you normalize.

In my experience the 1770s are duller sounding than the 1990s without EQ, but the 1990s can also be actively unpleasant on treble-hot content.

Oh Elegias are way worse for the mids than the clears! This guy will break them if he listens…

One of us! One of us! One of us!

You basically summed it up at the end. You have different taste and are likely accustomed to a different sound. The Sundaras are essentially the opposite from the 1-3kz region, with a notable dip/darkness to the mids.

Acclimation is huge for tunings like this. I have tried and enjoyed all kinds of tunings over the years, but in recent years, I greatly enjoy present mids, and have to EQ all Hifimans to truely enjoy them. I also have never found the mid hump of the clears or Elex to be that significant from a tuning perspective, but the combination of dynamic range and macro dynamics made the mids/vocals sort of attack you, making them feel more forward than they technically are.

I would second the suggestion of the Auteur. That is where most people including Zach (owner of ZMF) says you should start if you want get into their sound. You cant go wrong with anything in their lineup tho.

Best cult you can be in! :)

My turn to preach (and make your wallet sad).

I read your impressions and likes/dislikes post. From what I understood, you wanted natural timbre, good resolution, precision in soundstage, neutral or recessed mids, and no sibilance. The Auteur will do all of that, less the slam and bass presence (that's just not what the headphone is going for). While the Auteur is an EXCELLENT headphone, I don't think it's the best one in ZMF's lineup for your preferences.

When you get a chance, if you can find one at an event or HiFi store to try, you should try the Verite. Its beryllium-coated bio cellulose drivers slam like planars, but sing like dynamics. Everything is audible and discernible, yet nothing oppresses the ears. They are magnificent.

The only "downside" is that they achieve this comfortably listenable sound signature by "sucking out" the mids. It takes maybe fifteen minutes or half an hour to adjust to the effect, during which time it feels like you're working to listen for the mids you can hear are there, mixed in with everything else. But that's the key: they're still there. They're just not shouting over everything else. Once your ears adjust, the mids settle into place and you'll hear and enjoy them just fine.

And if you want more mids than the Verite offers and are willing to sacrifice some precision and slam to get it, look at the Atrium.

My thoughts exactly reading this post! To me. it's very hard to listen to any Focal after just listening to my Auteur.

Give the rad0 a try - probably a used set to save about 1000 bucks. They're slammy, detailed and inoffensive. Super easy to drive too.

You better get a monster amp to get the most out of HE6se

JM Audio Editions.

Take a look at lsa hp-2 ultras , the bass is really good and it is tuned very well.

Solid advice, thanks!

I've been getting all your bad luck. I've been through three hifiman headphones. I have an XS out for repair right now. I'm a fool for their sound and keep buying them. Happily, I've never had a problem with their customer service.

Agree. I demoed the Clear for a few weeks, had the same impressions as you, and ending up buying an Aeolus. They are a sleeper as they actually have pretty good technicalities with a much kinder presentation. More like a super-HD650. There are so many ZMF models now and the Aeolus has been out long enough that user can be had for a great price well under $1200.

LCD-X or ZMF Aeolus

Can I buy your pads

Sorry to hear that. I suppose we're both outliers on opposite sides of this bell curve. :(

Is this the most polarizing headphone? People seem to either really love them or really hate them.

I can kind of get the shouty part but I’ve never really heard these as metallic. I see people say that all the time, and yet I can’t hear it. I even compared it side by side with the HD6XX, Sundara and still own an EMU Ebony and the Clear doesn’t really stand out to me as having an off timbre.

Not knocking your opinion or anything as it’s a common and valid criticism but I’ve just never really noticed it. I thought it blew away the HD6XX and Sundara from a technical standpoint tho.

> need more oomph in my bass and that seems like the best way to get it without losing the qualities I like in the Sundaras.

You can also try the Edition XS. Recently got these and to me they fill in the exact holes that the Sundara is missing. The bass sounds like a flat line pretty much all the way down to 20hz, and it has noticeably wider soundstage and even better instrument separation. It's definitely not as intense in the mid-mids as the HD650, so it might be up your alley.

Of course if you're set on the Arya that should be flat out better in terms of technical ability, but they ARE supposed to be brighter...

i have the elex,when i used it with the stock pads it will hurt my ears and cause fatigue after half an hour of use ,tried the akg k7xx pads with it and the problem is gone.

Try Oratory's Harman EQ, (pdf) I find it works very well with the Clear.

That does EQ down the 1250 shout (1350 in this case) as well, I still find them very dynamic.

I find them less shouty and in your face than something like the HD600, and they do graph darker. New pads could be an issue here, I think it will get darker as it gets older.

https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Clear,HD600_S3_(2020)_(fresh_pads)

I have the Arya Stealth, it has that Hifiman 1-2.5kHz recess which may help but it's a lot brighter than the Clear above that. It probably is less "shouty" specifically though. It's less dynamic, less punchy, but better soundstage, better bass extension and I think a bit better tonally overall, and also more detail and layering. I like the Clear a lot, but if I could only have one, I'd take the Arya Stealth over the Clear (and also over the HD800S, HE6SEV2, LCD-X, and I'd have to think about which vs the Utopia). Arya Stealth is a great all-rounder.

https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Clear,Arya_Stealth

What ya running them on? I didn't love mine til I put them on a tube amp. Now I love em. Though I still love my Open Alphas more.

Arya are your best bet, I felt edition xs was lacking.

Nothing comes close to the experience of arya, its like sitting in a well treated room.

Like every sound, instrument has its own space and nothing ever fights to be in front, if they seem bright then you need more power.

Are those filters available to buy on their own?

I’m 22 and have the opposite experience as OP

I’d like an update on how this goes once you hear it

https://danclarkaudio.com/accessories/tuning.html

They are $20 + shipping. The oval shaped ones cover 80% of the focal driver. I have mine placed towards the front part. The rectangle ones might need to be trimmed.

Try a bio-dyna.

I recommend the EMU Teak.

If you can get the stock pads to fit your ears, I think they are worth trying based on what you are looking for: Bass and are often criticized for not being mid-forward enough. Some complain about the treble - and I notice it on certain recordings - but these are genuinely my favorite headphones.

You could also try the Edition XS.

> You cant go wrong with anything in their lineup tho.

As an owner of Auteur OG and former owner of Aeolus, Atticus, Eikon and Ori, you can definitely go wrong with ZMF headphones.

What didn't you like about them?

Is there a way to EQ out the honk/shoutiness?

Good looking out. Got me an arya for a deep deep discount. Already shipped this morning

I thought Aeolus, Atticus and Eikon severely lacked clarity/resolution/detail, were very blanketed in the bass and midrange, were very veiled in the treble, had very muffled and unnatural timbre, and had a tiny soundstage with very smeared/muddled/messy imaging and instrument separation. I also thought that Aeolus had bad dynamics/punch/potency/tactility across the whole range, while Atticus and Eikon had great dynamics in the bass, but were bad in the midrange and treble.

I had Atticus and Aeolus for a year before I conceded that I was never going to like them. Eikon I put up for sale quickly when I realized it was just more of the same. It's not that I don't like warm or dark headphones -- I adore HD650, CAL!, NTH-100 and a certain planar starting with V that shall not be named. I also liked LCD-2C.

In addition to the stock pads, I used Eikon suede, Universe suede and Universe perforated suede on Aeolus. On Atticus and Eikon, I used Eikon suede and Universe suede in addition to the stock pads.

As for Ori, it's a long time ago since I used it and I no longer remember what I specifically disliked about it.

Auteur is my favorite headphone. Usually, I find that headphones fall either on the bright side or the dark side of the spectrum, but Auteur is the first pair of headphones where I can't place it on either side, as if it's right in the middle, completely neutral. The upper midrange is perfect to me as well -- not shouty / too hot, nor sucked out / distant. The lower midrange and upper bass have a slight bloom that gives Auteur slightly more body and a hint of warmth. The sub-bass is a little rolled off, but I don't really care as I don't find the bass quality/technicalities to be up to snuff anyway, especially when EQ'd, so I switch to TH900 PW when I want fast, taut, snappy, punchy bass.

The timbre is the most natural I've heard in a pair of headphones or earphones. Usually, I find timbre more or less dry, bright, lush, tinny, muffled, metallic, glassy, shouty, etc., but with Auteur, it's... uncharacteristic. It has maybe a hint of sweetness, likely due to the slight bloom in the lower midrange and upper bass. Acoustic guitar and the violin, which are two of my favorite instruments and the instruments I have the most real-life experience with, sound life-like.

The dynamics are good across the whole range, making everything sound punchy or lively, and acoustic guitar plucks especially sound tactile.

The resolution is very clear and it digs into details like throatiness, raspiness, spittiness, the breath between notes.

The imaging is cohesive and instrument separation is well-delineated. The width of the soundstage is very wide (not quite wide as HD800). The depth of the soundstage is shallow/intimate, presenting me close to the mouth of the singer, which I prefer as Auteur is my midrange and timbre specialist pair of headphones.