unpopular opinion: TWS earbuds are REALLY going to replace wired

Submitted by olqerergorp_etereum t3_zwh8mm in headphones

Now, before you light up your torchs and go after me for saying that TWS are good, listen to me. they're not only good, they're BETTER for the average consumer than any wired IEMs, period.

no, they don't sound better, and no, they might not be as realiable and durable as wired earbuds, BUT when you see what are you trading off in exchange of beign free from wires, it makes TWS IEMs leagues above anything wired because the versatility and conform they bring just can't be matched by anything wired.

now, I own my fair share, or collection should I say, of both IEMs and headphones, all wired. but recently I brought myself a pair of koss TWS and damn me if they're not excellent. soundwise they got the same signature as the porta pros, the battery last way more that I can care to check, and they have no wires of course. it's not that they're the best IEMs that I've ever tried, but they're so good that they got NOTHING to envy wired IEMs, and if they're good enough for me that I don't notice a big difference, then they're sure as hell that they're good enough for most if not all people.

in the past I would have absolutely argued that Bluetooth it's not prepared in any way to efficiently stream music to a pair of TWS, also, they were bulky and you got to be charging them constantly (at least that was my last experience with TWS before buying a pair from koss), the thing is, at the pace that they're developing and improving this technology, I don't see wired headphones/IEMs lasting for more than two years before fading into obscurity or beign manufactured by only very specific brands dedicated to professionals or "pro" enthusiasts, just like wired mice became a niche product before beign discarded at outdated by the general public.

at this speed I no longer see no reasons why TWS IEMs won't become the natural evolution of wired IEMs.

what I'm trying to say here, it's that the market it's changing, people are changing even big brands (see seinheisser) are changing, see how they have stated that now wireless products will become a priority for seinheisser for the time being.

to finalize my opinion, I'd say that I'll be keeping my koss TWS earbuds for some time, and I'll bee expectating and watching closely how this technology evolves. they going so fast developing it that I think in one year even my newer pair of TWS will seem as outdated.

too long didn't read: TWS earbuds are the only future for IEMs. they might not be fully lossless of hifi or whatever, but don't act surprised when they eventually do catch up, and they will, and FAST. we are in the middle of a market change from wired products to wireless, and not because they're inherently better, but because the general public will heavily favor and buy wireless products that wired. I'm not seeing young people wanting to use wired headphones/IEMs either, soon there's going to be no market for wired products, it will happen eventually, sales for wired products will not even make a shadow in the soon to become massive, wireless market.

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mqtpqt t1_j1uop72 wrote

>they're BETTER for the average consumer than any wired IEMs, period.

damn its like the people here care about audio and are not the average consumer

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ku1185 t1_j1v6bvy wrote

But the market will cater to the average consumer, not the people here. So prepare yourselves...

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Bal_u t1_j1uqvyk wrote

While wireless audio has its uses (exercise is the biggest one), it's in every possible way inferior to wired audio. TWS earphones are overpriced, unrepairable devices with a lifespan of maximum a few years. Wires aren't even an actual issue outside of marketing materials.

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kingtauntz t1_j1vockt wrote

Wires are absolutely an issue to many people. I understand audio quality is better with wires in general but when walking my dog the wires kept getting snagged on my coat, pulled out of my ears, and just prevented me fully rotating my head around and the experience absolutely killed any enjoyment of music for me. I think wired IEMS are absolutely better and if you have a desk job or have a situation where they don't bother you then they are the better investment, but if you want the convenience factor or any of the added bonuses like better a better mic or ANC then they are often worth it for those people.

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1utu7g wrote

>it's in every possible way inferior to wired audio

yeah, it is inferior, but NOT THAT inferior, the difference it's starting to become meaningless, most people won't care about EQ, frecuencies bands, or of the earbud is made of moon rocks, they want stilish shit with easy convenience.

I'd argue that they're overpriced, you can find good pairs of Lenovo TWS earbuds in AliExpress for less than 20$, and they're genuine and as I said, good enough for most.

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Bal_u t1_j1uyn8o wrote

The cheap stuff often has QC issues, same as with the wired stuff, there are just many more points of failure for TWS.
Regardless, charging regularly is far more of an annoyance than a wire to me. I think it's totally sensible to keep around a TWS pair for going to the gym or running or whatever, but it could never replace wired earphones to me.

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IfTheGloveFits t1_j1upeyn wrote

The popularity, convenience or (eventual) quality of wireless audio is not the thing in question. It's a sugar coated poison pill, a false choice. Same as trojan horsing non user replaceable batteries via water resistance in phones or removing headphone jacks from devices to create and grow the TWS market. It's not an either/or.

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1uqwc2 wrote

yes, it was not an option, it was forced into people, but people liked it, so what are we gonna do? does enough people really care?

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IfTheGloveFits t1_j1uvepg wrote

>so what are we gonna do?

What's for us to do in this equation? I already said the popularity of wireless audio is the status quo.

>does enough people really care?

What if they do? The only option they have to continue on with their convenience is to keep buying new ones.

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[deleted] t1_j1uwak2 wrote

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IfTheGloveFits t1_j1uwxdh wrote

>The popularity, convenience or (eventual) quality of wireless audio is not the thing in question.

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[deleted] t1_j1uxkzu wrote

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IfTheGloveFits t1_j1uygoh wrote

Again, I get why people want wireless audio. That it will (and already has) become the default is a forgone conclusion. You don't have to convince me of the value of something which is already the default.

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[deleted] t1_j1uza0v wrote

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IfTheGloveFits t1_j1v0ex5 wrote

Did you know that the headphone jack came by default on most phones before apple decided to get rid of it on the iPhones?

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[deleted] t1_j1v1i2s wrote

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IfTheGloveFits t1_j1v3csl wrote

Having a headphone jack on your device doesn't automatically kill your bluetooth connection to your favourite wireless device. Having both on your device doesn't impede improvement to wireless technologies. It was a trojan horse because it was presented as an either or scenario. That you were getting something new or better in exchange for the loss of the headphone jack when that's just not true. Same with the longevity and repairability of TWS earbuds in exchange for the convenience of no wires. It is possible to make a product which fulfills both criteria yet it's being presented as an either or once again.

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SoftCatMonster t1_j1uq629 wrote

The only thing that really annoys me about most wireless audio implementations is that their latency basically makes playing rhythm games impossible. Even playing other games, the latency tends to drive me a bit crazy.

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1urh3w wrote

lmaooo I can see that happening too.

latency in cheaper wireless products it's so bad that you can't even watch a movie because voices will be out of sync with what it's beign presented on the screen. that will change tho, the technology it's getting everyday better and cheaper, it will get to a point we're even cheap wireless headphones will have an unnoticeably latency

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Ready_Throat5369 t1_j1uw6gq wrote

>they're BETTER for the average consumer than any wired IEMs

and? You know what was also for the average consumer? Apple wired earpods that came free with your phone. There has always been 2 distinct markets that have coexisted and these markets will continue to exist because the niche of audio is exactly that, a niche. There will always continue to be high end products like the Focal Utopia or Hifiman Susvara because they don't need to appeal to the general market and have been getting by just appealing to the niche because no average consumer will ever spend thousands on headphones.

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1uxy4r wrote

>no average consumer will ever spend thousands on headphones.

they don't because apple or other mainstream company hasn't had the balls to charge thousands for headphones, but people are absolutely fine with paying a premium and beign overcharged, it gives them status

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1uy2fx wrote

>no average consumer will ever spend thousands on headphones.

they don't because apple or other mainstream company hasn't had the balls to charge thousands for headphones, but people are absolutely fine with paying a premium and beign overcharged, it gives them status

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TheFrator t1_j1ur7gd wrote

> too long didn't read: TWS earbuds are the only future for IEMs

Emphasis added. Be careful when using absolute statements. We're a community of psychos that put audio fidelity (whatever that means to each of us) above everything else.

> sales for wired products will not even make a shadow in the soon to become massive, wireless market.

That's already the case and has been the case ever since Apple released Airpods (if not sooner). But the wired IEM resurgence in the past 5ish years took place despite such a small market percentage wired IEMs make up.

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1uulty wrote

>Emphasis added. Be careful when using absolute statements. We're a community of psychos that put audio fidelity (whatever that means to each of us) above everything else.

I know and I say the "only" future because there's no way around it. what are going to argue audio purist when the wireless technology finally overpass wired and is capable of reproducing music at the same fidelity if not better than wired earbuds?

also, the implementation of wireless headphones/earbuds has been very limited yet, there's tons of features that they could add but haven't, like having different factory fine tuned EQ attached to the earbud memory so users can select the one that they like the most from the get go instead of EQ themselves, or the earbuds beign able to recognize the genre that you're listening to, and changing the EQ on the go to the song that you're listening. I can see all of this and more happening in the future.

I'm going to be even more bold, wired iems are going to become soon the "dumb"phones of the headphone market. wireless WILL catch up, the arguments against it will become thinner and thinner with time, you just watch.

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Cannonaire t1_j1v2rx2 wrote

Low battery warnings, charging things, and latency are all a pain in the ass. I understand wanting wireless while traveling, but if you're spending most of your listening time at a desk then wired stuff turns out to be more convenient for a lot of people.

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covertash t1_j1v7syq wrote

I'm sure it's just a matter of time as well.

However, until we can get Susvara levels of uncompressed sound quality, on a weekly battery charge though, there are still many challenges up ahead. But I look forward to the day when something like this will happen - I just hope I'll still be around to experience it. :P

> I'm not seeing young people wanting to use wired headphones/IEMs either

Tell that to the celebrities and influencers:

https://www.nssmag.com/en/pills/28094/black-friday-2021

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AyeYoYoYO t1_j1vdpna wrote

Cables >>>>>>>> wireless.

Until wireless can AT LEAST transmit 1411kbps+, and overcome the size limitations on how drivers and housing combine to achieve further true extension …. Or come close to the soundstage of real open back cans … they won’t stand a chance at overtaking the market share of true audiophiles, much less audio professionals.

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PassiveAgressiveCan t1_j1url39 wrote

It’s why I’m not going down the IEM road, personally. I don’t like them for desktop listening, and would prefer wire free on the go. Everyone is different, but my S12 and Q5k will be the last on the go setup with wires for me. After this, I will go TWS. However, I think both will continue to exist, preferences and whatnot.

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1uv4qg wrote

I agree with you and also do the same and plan to do the same.

sadly good smartphones aren't beign manufactured with headphones jacks anymore, there was an "outrage" of people, even regular consumers that got angry, but it was not nearly enough people to make a dent in apple sales or affect the market in any meaningful way.

wired IEMs will still exist in the future, but for a very reduced consumed market and not what were used to. I can even see chifi brands like KZ going only wireless in the future or releasing their own brand like CCA that will only focus in wireless. it will happen eventually...

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dimesian t1_j1vbzd4 wrote

I think TWS can sound as good as IEMs but, there will always be people who will insist that wireless is trash whether they've tried Bluetooth at it's best or not. I often use IEMs with a wireless DAC/amp with LDAC, it sounds very similar to using a USB DAC, I find that the biggest factor in sound quality is the production of the music I'm listening to.

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Dongivafack t1_j1vs6p8 wrote

Companies really love to make TWS since it is easy to manufacture and has relatively short lifespan compared to phones, etc. This way they ensure on consumer to buy one on the average of 2 years or so.

From the consumers side, there is value in convenience. Most people will definitely trade off SQ to get a pair of convenient TWS.

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Vivid-Zucchini9562 t1_j1unhcd wrote

It's not gonna be surprising at all considering the general market's gonna be looking for convenience first and foremost. There's a lot of benefits to both wireless and wired however, and while the generic supermarket earbuds might be replaced entirely the specialist audio spaces will keep holding on. IMO we're in a renaissance of cheap, quality audio for both sides of the coin, and I don't see a way that wired will become completely extinct, as long as audio companies have a say in the matter, as well as tech companies in general, as quality, wired audio transitions from a standard to a desirable feature that's just another to add to the marketing of phones/smart devices.

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1uqnys wrote

>It's not gonna be surprising at all considering the general market's gonna be looking for convenience first and foremost.

so much this.

>as long as audio companies have a say in the matter, as well as tech companies in general

uhmmm I disagree, most big headphones companies are getting bought out by even bigger tech companies, and these companies don't give a damn, they will produce whatever it's more popular with people, and push what it makes more money, in this case, wireless products. I don't think we're going to see any audio company defending wired products at all, if anything they will be ditching them "in silence" while they pretend that they still care for that reduced market (they don't lol)

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S0_B00sted t1_j1uoxh6 wrote

How in the world do you think this opinion is unpopular?

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1uq2vp wrote

there's a fair share of people here or other forums that are in absolute denial, and refuse to believe that wired headphones/IEMs are beign replaced and soon be "outdated" tech.

this has happened a lot of times in different markets.

remember when people were saying that notebook/laptops weren't going to replace stationary computers at the home-use market? well they did

remember when. people were saying that smartphones weren't going to replace "dumb" feature phones or computers for the average consumer? well they did

it's has happened over and over and over, and now it will happen to headphones too, just watch how soon wired becomes a thing of the past.

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Andrewskiii t1_j1xgndf wrote

Which model Koss TWS earbuds do you have? Was interested in the 250i’s, have heard they sound like a combination of the Porta Pros and KSC75’s

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1xi8a0 wrote

you're on your lucky day bro, that's exactly the model that I got. and indeed, I've got both the porta pros and the ksc75s and can tell you that definitely koss wanted to play it safe with these IEMs because they got a sound profile really similar that those headphones, they're more similar to the porta pros than the ksc75s tho.

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CZsea t1_j1ya1jn wrote

if they become good enough then there's no point using wired I guess

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miles971 t1_j1yo5l8 wrote

Midrange frequencies specifically are always better in wired

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Gah_Duma t1_j1uln2t wrote

Yeah, because most people use headphones for portability, where audio quality is not a priority. Why use headphones at home? They'll never sound as good as a hi-fi speaker system. I've tried.

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chrews t1_j1uo9t9 wrote

It’s the other way around for me. I want the music directly between my ears, also there’s the convenience of seamlessly going from listening to music to talking with friends without switching the audio device.

I’ve tried fancy studio monitors but returned them again because I just didn’t use them very often. Maybe I need to try again some time.

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Gah_Duma t1_j1us0qp wrote

> there’s the convenience of seamlessly going from listening to music to talking with friends without switching the audio device.

So you have headphones on when talking to friends? In this situation wouldn't speakers be better so everyone can hear the music?

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Cannonaire t1_j1usx76 wrote

No one wants to hear music blasted through someone's microphone in mono over Discord or Zoom or whatever voice app you use.

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Gah_Duma t1_j1v0b5u wrote

Oh he meant talking with friends over the internet, not in person.

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chrews t1_j1usrav wrote

I mean discord and stuff, sorry should have worded that better

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TheFrator t1_j1uqhbt wrote

> Why use headphones at home? They'll never sound as good as a hi-fi speaker system. I've tried.

Disagree with your subjective impression but in no way is it "wrong" nor do I mean to imply it is. Just speaking from my own preferences.

Obviously, headphones won't deliver the chest feel of a stereo system nor will they deliver a soundstage on the level of stereo. But on pure sound quality, my headphones eek out my 2.1 system. Both cost roughly the same (LCD-5 vs. Philharmonic BMR towers) and both employ DSP (convolution to measure "flat").

There's something to the immediacy of music notes when you have a planar driver 3" from your ear drum that the stereo lacks. And that in turn changes the perception of sound.

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c0ng0pr0 t1_j1uq5jg wrote

Oddly most TWS users I know are actually using them to block out the daily sounds of city living or their job site’s noise.

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olqerergorp_etereum OP t1_j1upllr wrote

it's a matter of preference, I also have an studio/monitor pair of headphones and don't use them too much nowadays, I mostly use them when I watch movies/play games, or when I'm so high that I actually want to listen and enjoy to my music with my whole attention. everything else, I go with wireless...

I argue the other way around, I think hifi speaker systems are good and all that, but i still prefer headphones because I feel as I can listen to way more detail and isolate myself from outside noises. also you need to invest big bucks in hifi speakers if you want to match the detail of headphones 🤷

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