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klogg4 t1_j0y314d wrote

To AKG K612.

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AyeYoYoYO t1_j0y4us3 wrote

AKG K612 is one of the most underrated neutral/lean headphones of all time. While it’s sub bass is rolled off, the mids and treble are truly incredible for its price. And it definitely has the full K6/K7 soundstage.

I don’t own them, since I own the flagship K812, but for those who don’t mind rolled off bass, or who want less thunderous bass for gaming advantage (as opposed to gaming enjoyment), the K612 is great.

For those who want the AKG K soundstage, but can not tolerance sibilance, or fatigue quickly from piercingly accurate treble … the all black first edition MASSDROP K7XX has a much more “Sennheiser warm/darker” frequency response than say, the piercingly bright K701. In between the two is the Quincy Jones Q701.

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gonomon t1_j0y5gy2 wrote

Btw can someone explain why Akgs increased in price? I remember seeing k612 around 150-ish and 712 around 200-ish. Now 612 is 200 and 712s are much higher.

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[deleted] t1_j0y36z9 wrote

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klogg4 t1_j0y3fpu wrote

People need to stop that "midrange" rant about Sennheiser, it's not even the tenth reason why they're so good because there're a lot of other headphones that do midrange correctly.

And yes, AKG K612 are one of them.

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[deleted] t1_j0y3l8h wrote

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klogg4 t1_j0y3vu7 wrote

Still AKG K612, and leave HD560s as your music phones. Trust me, if you're after spatial and imaging characteristics, the whole HD6xx series is not for you, but AKG K6xx/K7xx surely is.

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sp33ls t1_j0y76ck wrote

Agreed with u/klogg4 here.

I love my HD650, and I did a lot of gaming with them. But, the 6xx series is not the best with spatial cues or separation.

If you only want to own one pair of cans, primarily for music with only some casual gaming, they're hard to beat.

If you think having a dedicated pair of cans for gaming will suddenly make you an eSports God, then the HD6xx series won't satisfy you.

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AyeYoYoYO t1_j0y58mp wrote

Sennheiser soundstage and directional imaging under $500 … simply aren’t anywhere near as large or expansive or detailed in that space, when compared to AKG in the same price range.

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podrae t1_j0ye2xb wrote

660s is better than 560s for music and I find it just as good for gaming. Have them both on my desk right now.

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Dust-by-Monday t1_j11sw4u wrote

I feel the same way. Used the 560s for a while and loved them sometimes and other times the songs were just unlistenable. I was constantly going from WOW, to OUCH from song to song. Then I got the HD 660s and it doesn't matter what song I throw at them, they all sound amazing. Smooth and soothing.

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roladyzator t1_j0yd6pw wrote

Although I have AKG K702, I most often use Koss KSC75 for games, especially when virtual surround is engaged (Creative's SXFI or Sony's 3d Audio on PS5). There is just something about how they present spatial cues that I like at lot. And with SXFI's EQ they actually have bass.

Certainly worth a try I think and unlike most bigger headphones, they stick to your ears well and don't fall off - so are quite nice when doing house work and still wanting to hear your surroundings.

The Beyerdynamic DT770, DT880, DT990 are also well known for for their imaging capabilities. Have a listen if you can, maybe this presentation is what would work for you.

Also, for Sony's 3d Audio in supported games, I find AKG K371 doing surprisingly well. What I perceive in such circumstances is very good understanding of sound direction and sense of space. Great example of this are Returnal and Horizon Forbidden West. I guess the K371's accuracy help a lot. And their bass works well in games if you don't have any equalizer in your chain.

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InFortunaWeLust t1_j0yfri2 wrote

i value the imaging more than sound stage. hd-6 line has decent imaging, I would easily tell where players were in valorant and i was using the HD-58X, id imagine the 660S to be even better.

i tried my 560S in valorant also and didn't like them, but it was probably because I was used to using the 58X for years before and not being accustomed to its presentation.

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Captain_slowly189 t1_j1308rj wrote

Hd58x and hd660s are pretty similar in the upper mids and treble. The HD58x are warmer and extend lower, so it’s basically an even more veiled hd660s. The hd660s does have more resolving ability tho. I would say that the hd660s is quite different from the rest of the hd6x0 line. The hd660s doesn’t extend as well on both ends compared to the rest of the lineup (hd600,hd580,hd650/6xx).

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Reasonable-Series-78 t1_j0ypzv1 wrote

Personally I find sound stage a little overrated for gaming. Having used the AKG K7XX for quite awhile I found using something with a wide sound stage to be too imprecise. I could tell general directions but, it seemed to make things like footsteps and gunshots sound farther away than they actually were. Imaging is probably more important for telling elevation and precise direction.

But, these days I use Sundaras for gaming because I just like them.

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mjmitche t1_j115re1 wrote

Had the same experience with a pair of ATH-AD900X. Sounded like footsteps were twice as far away. Settled on a pair of Phillips SHP9500 for gaming. Considering they only cost $60-80, it's great value for the image detail they provide

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Mr_Build3R t1_j0zdyl8 wrote

It's really down to personal preference. I use my K712's all the time with PC gaming, the imaging has been decent enough, but I like the wider sounds to sound a bit quieter and further away which they don't really do, unless I enable something like Dolby Atmos or even Windows Sonic.

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ostuniman OP t1_j0zf8he wrote

Would HD800s also have a wide stage? So then Sundaras are narrow stage?

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AyeYoYoYO t1_j0y4ajp wrote

AKG K6__, K7__, and K8__ have literally unbeatable soundstage width/depth/space, and 3d map placement accuracy.

Only Sennheiser HD800 and other even more expensive headphone series comes close to the AKG K6/7/8 soundstage.

And of all the more expensive models which can come close to the size of the AKG K6/7/8 soundstage, very few can also match that size with the audio accuracy, audio detail, and very revealing and relatively flat frequency response curves with extended treble for additional nuance, within that expansive soundstage.

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SaltMembership4339 t1_j0ygk9j wrote

Hifiman Edition XS destroys any AKG, Ath or most sennheisers. Its neck to neck with 3 times expensive hd800 on sound quality.

QUOTE FROM RTINGS. FYI Sundara is worse version of XS.

>The HiFiMan Sundara 2020 are better for neutral sound than the AKG K712 PRO. The HiFiMan have a more neutral, well-balanced sound profile, which some listeners may prefer. Their passive soundstage is also perceived as bigger and more open. On the other hand, the AKG come with a longer, 10-foot audio cable. They're also much more breathable.

HIFIMAN EDITION XS VS SENNHEISER HD 800 RTINGS.COM they are comparable to 3 times expensive headphones which is nobrainer choice

>The Sennheiser HD 800 S and the HiFiMan Edition XS are both excellent audiophile headphones with slight differences. The Sennheiser headphones have dynamic transducers, are more comfortable and well-built. They also have a slightly better mid accuracy, which ensures that vocals and lead instruments sound clear, accurate, and natural, while their passive soundstage creates a more out-of-head audio experience. In comparison, the HiFiMan are planar magnetic headphones. Thanks to their design, they're able to reproduce bass more accurately. They also deliver audio even more consistently than the Sennheiser.

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AyeYoYoYO t1_j109yzf wrote

I disagree. Hifiman’s entire range, while technically impressive in some aspects, all seem to have unnatural, recessed ranges in key frequency response zones, namely, from 1.5k-2k, and from 9k-10k. I am very very particular about these ranges, and especially avoid headphones without sufficient presence between 1k-3k.

I don’t dispute that the edition XS is impressive for its price in some regards, but it’s frequency response adjust has two glaring spots I could never tolerate, nor fix with EQ, without introducing other problems which would proclude them from being used in reference work and sound design work.

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SaltMembership4339 t1_j10dawu wrote

Hmm.. Well you seem to know more than me. But after reading peoples feedback and rtings tech review then all seems to be fine. You got any source where theres issue on that particular frequency thing?

But still soundstage what you advertised on AKGs is alot better on Hifimans, maybe theres that frequency thing but overall Hifimans should be superior headphones in almost every aspect.

And suggesting headphones for your personal ears not thinking about wider audience is not a good look.

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AyeYoYoYO t1_j10nfx8 wrote

The frequency dips exhibited across the hifiman range are located in two specific frequency bands, and those bands and several others are often the distinguishing factor between a professional or reference quality headphone, and one meant to maximize consumer enjoyment of poorly recorded music from the last or indie groups of the present.

Hifiman range house FR tendencies are not there to be neutral or fully exposing of everything there. They are made to make harsh recordings sound less harsh in the two frequency bands which a large segment of the population find irritating.

Problem is, when you listen to extremely well engineered well mixed great recordings, the vocals and upper midrange detail as well as percussion sparkle are very recessed in every hifiman headphone, it’s a conscious tuning choice the company has made to please a significant portion of sensitive lay consumers.

So for those who find many treble - rich headphones fatigueing or irritating, hifiman can be a good choice. But for those who want something more neutral and more honest, more revealing of every detail present, or those who need such detail to work properly, they are not the best choice.

I would also add that the XS soundstage is not superior at all to the AKG K6/7/8 series. The soundstage width does come very close though. But because of the tuning, they simply cannot match the upper mid fine detail and high end sparkle and overall FR honesty in the similar width space the XS can provide.

AKG’s k6/7/8 lines can do more detail and more sparkle and more revealing, accurate placement, in a giant Nearly 360’ space, as opposed to just a laterally wide space

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SaltMembership4339 t1_j10t17q wrote

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-edition-xs-launched.960155/page-59

Heres a guy who compares Aryas and XS and talks briefly about the recessing thing and says its improved on XS.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hifiman-edition-xs.27903/page-20

Also here people talk about the same issue, but it does not seems as bad as you make out to be. It kind of increases soundstage at the expense of little recess. Im no expert tho

Seems like really minor thing and if you are no hardcore audiophile you get more out of Hifimans than everything else there is under 500 dollars. But that is my opinion.

And theres also wiring problems in k702, there loads of people complain about it. I wouldnt risk. And about the soundstage you are right, they seem slightly better at that.

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AyeYoYoYO t1_j111xpd wrote

It’s true that recessing in those regions does give a sense of increased distance of instruments. But to me, the K812, HD800 & 800s already do this to its maximum tolerable level. Hifiman’s range overdoes it in an attempt to maximize percieved soundstage width, and it comes of too contrived to me.

It’s also my biggest critique of the K812 & HD800 lines.

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SaltMembership4339 t1_j1155qy wrote

Oh ok. My hifimans xs should arrive soon and maybe thats im too biased about them and i find ways why they are better than others. I did alot research and found they seemed best choice for under 500. However i missed the recess thing about them and now im second guessing. I have to try em myself, my old headphones are ath m50x so i do not know what to expect.

The k812 and HD800 were out my pricerange so i hope i got the next best thing. HD800 would be my dream headphones but they cost a fortune sadly

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AyeYoYoYO t1_j11c7so wrote

I understand your excitement for your upcoming headphones, but before speaking C so demonstrably with such assumed authority next time, limit such passionate comments to headphones you have heard in person, over a wide variety of genres and volumes

The Xs will be a very significant upgrade over your M50x, which while decent in the midrange and lower treble, has badly bloated muddy bass

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SaltMembership4339 t1_j11dzik wrote

I just referred to reviews and peoples overall opinion on these. Point is they are more recommended than other headphones on 500 dollar class. Rarely bad word about them and they are compared to 2-3 times expensive headphones. Maybe if you have thousands to spend Hifiman is not the best choice but at that price point they seem best you can buy.

They are clear upgrade from hd 600 series OP was wanting to upgrade from. K712 does not seem as good upgrade and K812 is crazy expensive, just like hd800. Hifiman XS seems good middle ground

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chilLlama t1_j0z7y86 wrote

I would highly recommend you checking out the edition xs

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tomatillo_ t1_j0yk3zt wrote

In the context of gaming none of these - HD6 series is great for a lot of reasons, but notorious for having very intimate and close soundstage.

HD800 is the king of soundstage and imaging, but if thats not in your budget you're looking at one of the AKGs or a Hifiman Edition XS (great soundstage width, height not so much).

Since you are coming from 560 which is super easy to power I will add this: I have only auditioned the AKGs at a shop, never owned one so i can't comment about if a dac/amp is required, but bear in mind the XS absolutely requires a dedicated amp regardless of whatever anyone will try and tell you, without an amp it WILL sound very congested and that is if it even gets to happy listening volumes, so please bear in mind if you are on a strict budget.

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YourMother0HP t1_j0ymbfn wrote

Audio technica AD900Xs and do a cable mod on them

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HyperHypn0 t1_j0yyxr4 wrote

660s since the rest of the headphones are know for their tiny soundstages.

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VHallinto t1_j0y3d6z wrote

HD600.

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AyeYoYoYO t1_j0y5ggd wrote

HD600 has a truly pleasant, classic, and honest midrange frequency response that is the best in the sennheiser HD6 line. While it does have a little rolled off sub bass and some veil of the treble, and the soundstage isn’t very large like the AKG’s … it’s truly great for intimate genres of music.

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helloworld36 t1_j0yqssr wrote

For gaming I would stick to the 560s.

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iplaydrunk99 t1_j11rpkr wrote

I use Beyerdynamic Tygr 300r for gaming and some EDM I play Overwatch 2 and I feel like I'm cheating on how wide and precise this hp is 😂

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Dust-by-Monday t1_j11spkj wrote

For gaming, you don't migrate to anything from the HD 560s. They're insanely good at directional imaging.

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nokkynuk t1_j11u00l wrote

Depends what im playing. For MMOS i usually throw on my DT770 or Meze 99. When i want wider soundstage its usually for action/cinematic games and i use my HD650 or hifiman he400se for that nice freq response.

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AmirZ t1_j0ydgkb wrote

For gaming, 560S is the best out of everything you mentioned

For music, you can EQ 560S to be nearly indistinguishable from the others

No point in upgrading

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