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GLikesSteak OP t1_j5u7dm1 wrote

I started my "proper" headphone journey only end of last year with the Sennheiser HD 58x, where previously I only had Logitech G Pro X, Razer Krakens, I thought they were good, but when I first heard the HD 58x I actually teared up from how good it sounded, it was like listening to a whole new world of music.

I fell in love with the forward and intimate mid range, as I usually listen to Scandinavian female vocalists for the most part such as AURORA, Eivør, Susanne Sundfør, where they all have angelic, soothing vocals, and the HD 58x just brings them to the next level as compared to what I had in the past. After just a couple of weeks of listening however, I still loved it, but felt like it was a little muddy, I can't explain it, but I felt like it could be better.

When I first started checking out audiophile headphones, the HD 6x0 series instantly caught my eye, I LOVED how they look, with the exposed grilles and clean design, I just thought they were really handsome headphones.

Came one fine afternoon, I saw a good deal on a brand new HD 650 for less than $250, had to snatch it up, partly because I heard from reviews and such that they were basically a better version of the HD 58x. I got home and put them on and the feelings that made me enjoy the 58x washed over me at an even higher degree. I fell in love with the HD 650 then and there.

The HD650 seemed to have a higher degree of clarity that I felt that HD 58x was lacking, and although the general knowledge is that the HD58x had more bass, I didn't really notice much of a difference, nor did I miss that one bit. The song "Winter Bird" by AURORA showed me that it still got that bass, just within the first 20 seconds.

The mid range performance is gorgeous and paired with a tube rolled Xduoo MT602 hyrbid tube amp (stock tubes sounded too solid-statey), it is honey and soooooo easy to just put on these headphones and just enjoy music, to chill and relax. The treble is pretty tame and never gets piercing (unlike the Shuoer S12 IEMs...). Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of more "exciting" headphones out there, but for vocal-heavy pop and folk music and acoustic, I am more than satisfied with these.

I've had them for 2-3 months now, and if I had to have only one headphone for the rest of my life, I would be happy with the 650, they are damn near perfect for me and most of my music tastes.

Just a small example of music that I thoroughly enjoyed on the HD650 are:

Eivør - Falling Free (Live in Torshavn)

Susanne Sundfør - Undercover

Susanne Sundfør - When the Lord

AURORA - The Devil is Human

AURORA - Exhale Inhale

An honorable mention is Elton John's Can You Feel the Love Tonight, I almost shed a tear because his voice just sounds so beautiful there.

However of course, the HD 650 isn't without drawbacks. With orchestra music like Hans Zimmer stuff, it is almost underwhelming, and the intimate sound stage that usually I like just does not do well to give a sense of grandness to the music, everything feels cramped in and almost blended together, example is the Inception soundtrack by Hans Zimmer.

As such, although the HD 650, is near perfect to me personally, I am getting a Hifiman Sundara some time next week, for the more "exciting" music. I've had the pleasure to try one at a local store, just for a few short minutes, really liked it but did not feel like it was better than the HD 650, just different, more energetic and punchy with a wider soundstage, something to pair well with the 650 I hope!

This is my first ever audio stuff write up, I'm still a total noob in the topic but trying to learn as much as possible, hope it wasn't too boring!


SteakTree t1_j5uer38 wrote

Definitely can understand what you are hearing and feeling. Over a decade ago I got my first HD650, and over the years tried many sets, even picked up a second 650 after selling my first. After a number of flagships, I've settled on the HD660S. These are the ones.


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5uh1zd wrote

Definitely am Interested in a 660S! Pretty dang pricey where I'm at though


radrod69 t1_j5vcb33 wrote

The 660S is an awesome headphone too (my pick if I could have only one headphone under $2k USD), more of an all rounder than the 650, but since you're getting the Sundara too you will be covered and having variety is so much fun.


yosoysimulacra t1_j5uztd2 wrote

Sitting here listening to A Moon Shaped Pool on my trusty old 650's, and I only kinda regret selling my SDR-modded HD800's a few years ago.

The 800's are something special. That said the bleed is insane, and I couldn't warrant them sitting around only being used to listen to Yo Yo Ma and Steely Dan to death. That said, I miss the space the 800's created--hard to beat, but damn those things are big.


FallenLlama t1_j5u8qwm wrote

I just switched from HD 58x’s to Sundaras. They are a noticeable upgrade. More so than I was expecting. Skipped the HD600/650/6XX/660s with the expectation they wouldn’t be quite as resolving as I was looking for. The Sundaras certainly offer more clarity than the HD 58x’s and have cleaner deeper bass.


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5u8xvp wrote

Yup, but I wouldn't trade that mid range for anything, love it too much.


RChamy t1_j5uhmsj wrote

The 650's mids are quite unique, I might say.


herbertwalkerbush69 t1_j5vt781 wrote

Just wanted to chime in from personal experience going from the 650s->sundara->anandas the sundara gave me a great glimpse into what good planars can do but I really didn’t consider them a complete upgrade from the 650s like the anandas. Mainly in terms of bass separation and overall soundstage. The Sundaras would certainly be a great compliment to the 650s though.


Pity__Alvarez t1_j5v5exd wrote

I'm using razer kraken, i notice where they sometimes miss clarity but i use eq. In a scale of 0 - 100% percentage, where 100% is listening live in studio and is unachievable, how does sundara and sennheiser feel in your experience? the website rtings gives a score of 8.4 out of 10 of neutral sound to sundara, I don't think i can trust it fully


MPThreelite t1_j5umrog wrote

I always found my 650s a little bass heavy and muddied. Give the hd800 cans a listen. They're the super clean and a little less bass heavy than the 650s . Highs and staging are beautiful on the 800 . I've never heard the 800s model , probably just a little more refined.

Years ago I remember there was a link on the sennheiser web page to your own headphone readings using your serial number . Not sure if they still have that on there.



GLikesSteak OP t1_j5umyjx wrote

Too rich for my taste currently, but not impossible to see an 800s in my future


MPThreelite t1_j5upcis wrote

Oh , give these albums a try if you haven't already . They're magical with good headphones.

Steven Wilson - hand cannot erase (or any of his albums honestly) Daft punk - random access memories / Tron legacy soundtrack Arturo Sandoval- Trump evolution (sound on that one is epic) Yes - closer to the edge (Steven Wilson remaster) Pink Floyd- The Wall / Wish you were here / Dark side of the moon Gladiator Soundtrack

SO many others . You found any great sounding albums ? I'll give them a go. On gaming nights I stick in the ie800s monitors and just listen to full albums on edibles . It's Bliss.



MPThreelite t1_j5unnbm wrote

Those amps , they change the sound much ? . I have an old headroom powered and battery powered headphones Amp but but doesn't do justice for the 800. I'll have to throw the 650's on it to try .


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5uo369 wrote

Noticeable after tube swapping, warmer smoother sound than if I were to connect the headphones to the DX1 alone, which is a really clean solid state dac amp. Stock MT602 sounds very much like a solid state though, so gotta tube roll if you want something more tubey.


jm090 t1_j5vp4l5 wrote

I'm honestly surprised you noticed anything at all, afaik the tube is in the power section on that amp and has little effect tonal effect. Save up for a bottlehead crack and build it yourself, that will make a whole nother level of smooth music come out of the 650s. They are also amazing with hd800s as a bonus.


MaapuSeeSore t1_j5vye5k wrote

Bass heavy on 650s ? 0.0

You like the sparkly sound

HD800 are definitely what you are looking for

Ultrasones (idk if they still in business) mays be a good fit too


PaulCoddington t1_j5vr8ui wrote

Adding Morphit to the chain in "reference/correction" mode was a huge improvement for my personal tastes and needs, probably much better value for me than trying to buy better headphones.

It takes away the mid bass hump, moderately counters the deep bass roll-off, clarifies some parts of the spectrum that have a bit of "clutter", makes everything have a little bit more "bite" and "kick" while retaining that smooth natural timbre.

Bought them closer to the memories of the sound of some old secondhand Stax I had in the late 80's.

Free to try, so long as you have a VST capable player.

Other people's ears and tastes will vary though.


Nayre_Trawe t1_j5vv6se wrote

> Free to try, so long as you have a VST capable player.

USB Audio Player Pro also has Morphit as an add-on, for mobile users who may be interested in trying it out.


whatitdo101 t1_j5vxa4n wrote

Comparing 650's to HD800 lolllllllll oh the hd800's are better? No way


Mamad0u420 t1_j5vm47f wrote

Funny how I hated my hd650s had them for like 2 weeks and went back to my good ol' dt990 that don't hide any sound from me


Paradoxx__- t1_j5xtr2b wrote

I wasn't wowed by them when I first got them, but going back to something else after using them for a while taught me how good they really are.

The "veil" is definitely noticeable and they require EQ to really show their potential.


blucsigma05 t1_j5umj99 wrote

Cable looks nice is that the default or aftermarket?


tldnradhd t1_j5uzlvk wrote

Aftermarket. Regular cable is just a long black one.


Zurevu t1_j5zqt2h wrote

OP, fyi posted your comment to my new sub, r/RedditorReviews.


Assumption-Academic t1_j5wvzjy wrote

See your problem is fatigue. Listen to some crappy cans for a while then come back to the best ones. Get some superlux, they're good enough but crappy enough, when you come back to your expensive cans you will surely appreciate them better.


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5xi7im wrote

What? I already appreciate the hd650 a bunch, I'm not going to buy some garbage cans and waste money.


Assumption-Academic t1_j5y2wmv wrote

How do you know something is crappy before trying it? How do you know your cans aren't crappy without a point of reference? I guess you have the gaming headsets to compare to.


PolarBearSequence t1_j5uidi1 wrote

Love the 650 as well, it was my first really good headphone and it’s still the one I’d never consider selling. It may have some downsides, but it just sounds so extremely good for a lot of music… one of the most tonally pleasant headphones ever.


FunnyTman t1_j5udxj5 wrote

Gotta ask why not just get a hd6xx, thanks for the music recommendations. Never knew I would like this


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5uea0u wrote

I'm currently living in Singapore, so no way to have Drop ship them here direct. And MSRP for HD650 here is insane, usually $500++ USD.


FunnyTman t1_j5uf43u wrote

Really? Just checked that it ships to Malaysia


cvcjebus t1_j5uqzb3 wrote

Heyyyyyyy Singapore gang! Had you spent much time at Zeplin Co. At sim lim square? I had 650’s and thought I’d be happy with those until I ran across an ad on Carousell for a pair of HD800 @ S$700 🤤. The 650’s were gone in 3 months 🤣


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5ur7u9 wrote

Hi! I was going to visit them once but...closed😵 their offday...oh well! Only visited sam audio so far. Carousell is full of good stuff, have a sundara from there reserved!


cvcjebus t1_j5ursp6 wrote

I just sold the 800’s and got a pair of Hifiman Arya V2’s they are very similar to the HE1000. See if Zeplin has some they are my forever endgame. One day when I can have 2 pairs of end game cans I’ll buy an HD800S for specialty listening, classical/jazz, but for everything I listen to on a reg Arya is it. Also FANTASTIC for movies.


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5urz7p wrote



cvcjebus t1_j5usjnd wrote

We’ll I’ve been very fortunate to be able to buy low and sell high also I moved back to the US so different markets. With all the finagling I think I would up around $500 in for $3.8k of gear🤣 I’m not normal. If I ever have a renters insurance claim they are not going to be able to reconcile my income vs. the value to replace all my stuff at msrp 😂


chnch0 t1_j5uikq2 wrote

They would, they ship intl now


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5umkva wrote

Serious? Last I checked when I was shopping they didn't, so guess that's nice


MichNeko t1_j5uzgs5 wrote

The regular 650 has slightly better build, and better colors, I would trade my 6xx for a 650.


wagninger t1_j5upbwd wrote

Believe me, it saved you 😅


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5upiq0 wrote

Guess I'll be stuck in "mid fi" for quite a while, thankfully!


wagninger t1_j5uqxzr wrote

Oh that’s proper hifi, don’t let the existence of multi-1000-dollar/euro/etc headphones discourage you! It was never really my thing, but if I had liked it, I don’t know if I would have ever looked for more.


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5urhs1 wrote

I know, just the term to gauge price range. Hate the term but many people use it😂


WookieePoot t1_j5usb60 wrote

Very cool! It's so nice to hear success stories, especially those who don't spend top $$$ on insanely expensive gear but are still able to enjoy what they have. While armed with the knowledge that there is definitely a law of diminishing returns, I feel that I have a duty to find amazing sound for less $$$. So far so good on my journey.

However, after spending some time with my HD600s, I sometimes wish that I picked up the HD650s because I like a little more bass in my music that EQing just can't fix in my HD600s. Don't get me wrong, I love the 600s, I just want more low-end.

I have tried various dac/amp combos on the HD600s as well minus a tube amp (which I am currently in the market for) and while I can get better results with a warmer dac/amp combo + EQing, it still isn't where I prefer it to sound, overall. I simply cannot add enough bass.

So, that leads me to think that I should probably pick up the HD650s at some point + a decent tube amp and see where that takes me. I also have an opportunity to pick up some Focal Clears for a REALLY good deal and they are supposed to have pretty good low-end without mudding up the mids while keeping the imaging, detail, and soundstage that I prefer so I might give that a shot.

Either way, I will never get rid of my HD600s. They still sound absolutely amazing on vocals and string instruments. (they are also great for watching movies).

Thanks for sharing and enjoy your music!


MPThreelite t1_j5ut4j6 wrote

Thought about getting one of those tube Amp kits. Then replace the stock tube with good stuff. A friend did that a swears by it. I'd pick up a Schiit combo . Kinda pricy though.


Grimlock248 t1_j5uyahw wrote

Agreed female vocalists with the 650/6XX are amazing.

Try Norah Jones - Come Away With Me. Really intimate; like she’s singing right into your ears.


wiggan1989 t1_j5v0sm2 wrote

Arlo Parks too, but I listen to her on my 600s. Pretty much the same signature


MichNeko t1_j5v0m7y wrote

650's are indeed great, nothing quite made me stop and just vibe to music again like it did. And not to mention orchestra with them, I dislike the words "lush mids" but that's definitely how it sounded.

"I Was Born For This" by Austin Wintory always gets me the 650.


spbgundamx2 t1_j5v34h8 wrote

Same... Ive got the hd650, dt880 and fostex th-x00's as my trio. I do have the sony XM4's but thats for travel and outdoor use so dont really count that as part of this.


HD650's are the endgame for me.... i stopped it there to save myself down a rabbit hole haha


rcoleto t1_j5vd7ym wrote

Sennheiser has a special place in my heart


roenthomas t1_j5via20 wrote

Wait till you get the 800S


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5vk83f wrote

I feel it'll be different, I like the intimacy of vocals on the 650


handsomeness t1_j5vjieg wrote

Do yourself a favor and never listen to focal clears


herbertwalkerbush69 t1_j5vul39 wrote

As someone who now has a pair of Hifiman Anandas as my daily driver and previously owned the 650s and fell in love with their sound. Are the clears good enough to warrant their price if I miss my 650s or would the 6XX be good enough to scratch the itch every once in a while.


handsomeness t1_j5ykgk8 wrote

>Are the clears good enough to warrant their price

I mean... that depends on you and how you feel about the near kilobuck price range my guy. I think so, but I also hate knowing the headband is a ticking timebomb


goneriah t1_j5vvoti wrote

The joy I felt seeing Aurora in the background 🥲


e-Standards t1_j5z0030 wrote

HD6xx series are all so good.


lightning696969 t1_j5uokjv wrote

Inhale exhale by Aurora vocals are panned to bit left or my hd650 is defective ?? I want to know??


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5uot9x wrote

Center stage to me🤔weird..


lightning696969 t1_j5up1v1 wrote

But on my hd650 it sound like vocals are coming from left side .


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5up9jl wrote

Her main vocal sounds center to me, but the backing vocal are the side


lightning696969 t1_j5upoua wrote

This imbalance can be caused bcuz of less power bcuz I'm using it of my phone using Abigail dongle ?? Or should i send to Sennheiser for service or repair ??


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5uq0iy wrote

Do other songs seem like this to you? Because this particular song likes to play around with different "directions"


lightning696969 t1_j5ur95g wrote

Yes, Rockstar by post malone also sound like his vocals and instrument coming from left. Do you also felt same ?? Please tell?


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5urwn0 wrote

Yes his vocals sound center stage to me, definitely try to claim warranty on your unit


lightning696969 t1_j5uspnl wrote

Cable name please??


Solypsist_27 t1_j5ux5z9 wrote

Before changing anything about the headphones, make sure your ears are OK, and test with other headphones. You could just have a slight earwax buildup


lightning696969 t1_j5uyfxb wrote

When i bought it at that time it didn't had any issue but now this vocals and instruments panning to left or right not center


lightning696969 t1_j5uwyvk wrote

I'm scared to give my headphone to their service centre bcuz they might make it worst or might replace it from fake unit. Bcuz here brands after sale service is shit bcuz there is no consumer laws here .


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5v0c5i wrote

What?? Sent it back to sennheiser straight lol


lightning696969 t1_j5v0ro9 wrote

Things not working like this here. You have to take to service centre and they will decide what to do with the product. If it was that easy i wouldn't be asking these questions instead just sending them to Sennheiser


OkRazzmatazz7121 t1_j5v7t1u wrote

I would like to know what Tubes do you use for your MT-602? I bought some Sylvania Golds but found them too bright for my tastes. Would like a more fluid, tubey sounding tube for them like you described...


roenthomas t1_j5vid4l wrote

Why did you decide on a 650 and not a 6XX?


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5vj2aw wrote

The 6XX is wasn't available to ship to my country straight from Drop at that time, got a good deal on a brand new 650, and I think the grey color looks better too


PutPineappleOnPizza t1_j5vr56j wrote

How much did the sound change when tube rolling? I have a TA-26 and that thing is surprisingly clean, almost solid state lol. Like still obviously better, but not vastly different.


Dan_Mohr t1_j5vzrjd wrote

I tried to like the 650s but they just weren’t doing it for me. I don’t get the hype.


kemnitz t1_j5w2c21 wrote

I find Philips Fidelio 2XHR are a perfect compliment to HD650's. They are the headphone for that "grand" music the 650's can't deliver on. Go buy some now!


lifethroughlenses t1_j5w6z71 wrote

What headphone preamps are you plugged into there? I have really been considering buying one for better listening with my headphones until I can get a better pair. I think you have sold me on these as the next purchase after that.


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5xi0p3 wrote

I'm just using the Topping DX1 as a DAC and Xduoo MT602 as the amp


hurtyewh t1_j5x9za4 wrote

Try Oratory1990's EQ preset. For me it doubles the sound quality.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ua20s wrote

But you’re listening to Spotify…


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5uajoy wrote

So? The difference between Tidal HiFi and Spotify Premium is so tiny that I am more than willing to sacrifice that "downgrade" in quality for a user interface that I much prefer. I'm not here to pick apart tiny nuances in music 24/7, I'm here to enjoy music.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ublnq wrote

It’s really not. There’s a marked difference between Apple Music and Spotify that you can tell on earbuds and that’s before you get into lossless downloads


ultra_prescriptivist t1_j5uhy63 wrote

Bruh, do I have just the thing for you.

I recorded a series of samples from Spotify and compared them to others taken from Apple Music, Tidal, and Qobuz.

Before you go any further, I would suggest you head over to the link below, download and listen to a few of them and see for yourself how that "marked difference" vanishes when you don't know which one you're listening to.


chnch0 t1_j5ujlgo wrote

I tried AB-ing Apple lossless and Spotify before. While I do believe there’s an audible difference between the two, I wouldn’t label Spotify as an inferior streaming service. Their algo in making playlists is topnotch, and their interface is much more user friendly and appealing compared to AM. And at the end of the day, I concur with OP - you’re there to listen and enjoy the music.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5uil7x wrote

Dude I’ve already tested CD vs Spotify vs Apple Music.

Question is what did you record them on?


ultra_prescriptivist t1_j5uj30u wrote

Tested how? Listened to them side by side while jumping back and forth, or an actual blind ABX test?

You can see details of my methodology in the link above.

I've had about a dozen people message me so far and none of them were able consistenly tell Spotify apart from any of the other services.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ujj67 wrote

You haven’t heard of alt tab I’m guessing?


ultra_prescriptivist t1_j5uk2wz wrote

Lol knew it.

You have the unmerited confidence of someone who hasn't actually attempted a blind ABX test of Vorbis @320 versus FLAC.

I genuinely suggest you try it.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ukemm wrote

Again you haven’t heard of alt tab which allows you to do a blind ABX test?


ultra_prescriptivist t1_j5ukuy6 wrote

No I haven't.

Do go on and explain it to me in your own words


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ulmra wrote

So ABX test would be listening to two sources and then randomly listening to one of them again to see if you can distinguish if it was A or B. You can open two windows, stay with me here, listen to the same point in a song on each tab then resetting to the start without looking using Alt tab to skip between tabs and then, here’s the tricky part, you can HOLD alt tab for a period of time which causes it to rapidly jump windows, randomising the window you land on. Then you can listen for a third time and then draw conclusions.


ultra_prescriptivist t1_j5une9k wrote

Lol it's not a proper blind test if it's you that's controlling things, regardless of whether you squeeze eyes shut or not.

Plus did you do that at least 10 times per song to rule out the possibilty that you simply guessed the right answer out of sheer luck?

While I admire your inclination to test it out in the first place, I'm afraid that any results you obtained by the method you described above are not reliable whatsoever.

I have included details of how to conduct a proper double-blind ABX and provided links to freely available tools in the link above, should you want to give it a proper go.

Or at least you can simply listen to the samples I recorded side by side and see how they are incredibly hard to tell apart when you don't know which is which.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5uoliy wrote

Um… you just don’t look at the display? You don’t control where the alt tab lands because you have no way of knowing. You do it at the start so you don’t know what A or B is and and you don’t know what X is. That like saying a randomisation algorithm isn’t random because you pressed go.

5 consecutive results is what a 3% chance of guessing all 5 correct?

Kinda are though. Unless you think someone can count in hundredths of a second to know what tab they’re currently on?


ultra_prescriptivist t1_j5uowsm wrote

Mate, your method fails on multiple levels.

You haven't done an actual blind test.

You don't get to act with this level of arrogance when you haven't even done that much.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5uptb0 wrote

I don’t think you know what a blind test is. So you believe that if you listen to two sources, and you do not know what either of those two sources are, you then listen to one of those again after a process after which you have no way of knowing which source you’re listing to isn’t random? It doesn’t matter who presses the button. If you have no way of knowing there’s no way of knowing. You’ve just got caught out


RayceManyon t1_j5ub2kc wrote

Don't "source shame".


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ubqoq wrote

Just seems dumb to spend money on headphones and amps to then put in shit it. As the saying goes shit in shit out


No-Context5479 t1_j5ubr83 wrote

There is no way you're talking down on Spotify... bruh some people in this space are insufferable


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ubv02 wrote

It’s a shit platform for audio quality? Not really a secret.


No-Context5479 t1_j5uc92o wrote

Ain't no way you wrote that with a straight face and hit send on that🤣... If 320 kbps is shit then your ears must be that of a bat (which I know it's not) and needs that good"Hi-Res" or whatever it is straight from the studio... Funny


GLikesSteak OP t1_j5ue1dl wrote

He must have them GOLDEN EARS /s Or you know, just a gatekeeping snob.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ucj86 wrote

It’s Oggs so yes it is. Codec matters


No-Context5479 t1_j5udw74 wrote

OGG isn't the codec... The codec is called Vorbis. OGG is the container like MQA, FLAC. With Vorbis being the codec used to store data in OGG container.

Also Vorbis is a very efficient codec, much better than mp3 and generally able to maintain a higher level of audio quality at lower bitrates meaning less data used for the same fidelity.

MQA is trash and also lossy like OGG Vorbis but that's a talk for another day... Have a good day


PetersenIsMyDaddy t1_j5vlt0q wrote

FLAC is a codec, it’s literally in the name


No-Context5479 t1_j5w7y79 wrote

FLAC is both a container and the codec... Yes I should've been more specific in that regard but you can store .wav files in a flac container... Same as lossy files being polished as flac files when they're not lossless files


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5uevt1 wrote

It’s ogg Vorbis, I was shortening it.

It’s efficient but it doesn’t sound good vs other options that offer lossless audio streaming


No-Context5479 t1_j5ufuuj wrote

The only objectively "better" service would be Apple's Hi Res Lossless Option for streaming, AmazonHD's Hi-Fi, Qobuz, Deezer Hi-Fi but in the end most people can't tell the difference unless they're actively listening for differences... I can tell the differences but honestly for most times I'm not looking for which pin dropped in the studio Spotify is near identical when actually enjoying music and not trying to not pick. I have lossless CDs and stuff saved through Qobuz but I use those rarely and would cancel my Qobuz subscription soon.

What even is better is getting a well mastered and dynamic range checked piece of music... If it's lossy, doesn't matter, that would sound far better than a terribly mastered and dynamic range squashed recording that is in lossless form.. but hey, "lossless" is better I guess.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ugh8f wrote

Generally lossless files are mastered better. That’s why apple has its digital masters or “mastered for iTunes” badge as they’re mastered for lossless playback


No-Context5479 t1_j5uhbcj wrote

I can list so many lossless albums with terrible dynamic range and shit mastering but yes generally Lossless albums should have more fidelity honestly


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5uhhes wrote

And if they can’t master for lossless then they’re not going to be able to do it for sub CD quality either will they?


No-Context5479 t1_j5uhprl wrote

Reason why I said mixing and mastering is actually more important than fussing over if something is lossy... I'd take a genuinely good master at 256kbps over some jumbled mess of a dynamic range read at 1411 kbps


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ui288 wrote

Point was that the masters of a particular song will be the same regardless so the same file in FLAC vs say MP3 will have the same bad master. The FLAC will still sound the better of the two


No-Context5479 t1_j5uiqtv wrote

I think we'd have to end it here... I'm just of the view 320kbps OGG Vorbis is very capable and .flac or .alac files will be "better" but not by a humongous margin that will call for people to overhaul their listening services. You're on Apple Music, kudos. Someone too is on Spotify, more power to them. Another loves their .wav offline stuff, they can carry on and be satisfied regardless.👍🏾


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5uj2um wrote

Again it’s more that you’re spending money on headphones, DACs and amps. Why use lossy audio formats? You’re literally wasting money on the amps and DACs at that point


NecroFantasy9 t1_j5ud4a9 wrote

Another "FLAC sounds much better" cultist or just a troll?


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5uf9rr wrote

Lossless is better? That’s well established. But even then I’m not saying everyone should have a library of 24 bit FLAC files it’s just competing services have lossless audio if you want it as standard. Buying hugest end equipment and not using the service that has the better audio uplift just seems a bit dumb


NecroFantasy9 t1_j5uffuq wrote

I said "much better", not just "better" about sound quality. In some scenarios it can be better of course, but I don't think that better sound quality in lossless can be detected every time. And it can't be "MUCH better" than Spotify


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ugu3f wrote

If you did a blind test between oggs and a lossless file like a FLAC or ALAC people would be able to tell. Point is if you’re spending money on shit you don’t need like amps why would you not just get a better source when it’s readily available.


NecroFantasy9 t1_j5uhd05 wrote

Ok, maybe it is just your brain that tries to pretend it (the big difference in sound quality)


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5uhita wrote

Dude Spotify isn’t near the same as FLAC. It’s worse than AAC at a lower bitrate


NecroFantasy9 t1_j5ui4ee wrote

I use Spotify 24/7 and also have LDAC library. Can't find much difference and Spotify is just comfortable.

Also, it is pointless to argue with you. Either it's your brain or you are just trolling.


chnch0 t1_j5ukeav wrote

Isn’t AAC only at 256kbps max? Btw, YouTube Music’s quality is also at 256kbps, max. AB’d Spotify and YTM, can’t tell the difference.

Let people enjoy their music, man. And maybe be more respectful in giving your opinions.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ul3p7 wrote

Sample rate isn’t everything. Layman’s terms lossy codecs strip bits of the file away to keep the “important” part but reduces file size by getting rid of less import parts. Different codecs do this in different ways meaning you can get one that sounds better at a lower sample rate.


npalnpal t1_j5ujcab wrote

🤡 Downvoted on every comment, let the man/woman enjoy their music.


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5ujos4 wrote

People don’t like common sense I guess


chnch0 t1_j5ujxmj wrote

Nah dude, people don’t like snobs and jerks


Pigeon_Chess t1_j5uka9q wrote

Yup, saying that there’s no point spending a bunch on a dac and amp when you’re using a lossy source is being snobby.


chnch0 t1_j5ukjwr wrote

Being snobby isn’t on the message, it’s on the delivery of said message. Carry on.