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I started my "proper" headphone journey only end of last year with the Sennheiser HD 58x, where previously I only had Logitech G Pro X, Razer Krakens, I thought they were good, but when I first heard the HD 58x I actually teared up from how good it sounded, it was like listening to a whole new world of music.

I fell in love with the forward and intimate mid range, as I usually listen to Scandinavian female vocalists for the most part such as AURORA, Eivør, Susanne Sundfør, where they all have angelic, soothing vocals, and the HD 58x just brings them to the next level as compared to what I had in the past. After just a couple of weeks of listening however, I still loved it, but felt like it was a little muddy, I can't explain it, but I felt like it could be better.

When I first started checking out audiophile headphones, the HD 6x0 series instantly caught my eye, I LOVED how they look, with the exposed grilles and clean design, I just thought they were really handsome headphones.

Came one fine afternoon, I saw a good deal on a brand new HD 650 for less than $250, had to snatch it up, partly because I heard from reviews and such that they were basically a better version of the HD 58x. I got home and put them on and the feelings that made me enjoy the 58x washed over me at an even higher degree. I fell in love with the HD 650 then and there.

The HD650 seemed to have a higher degree of clarity that I felt that HD 58x was lacking, and although the general knowledge is that the HD58x had more bass, I didn't really notice much of a difference, nor did I miss that one bit. The song "Winter Bird" by AURORA showed me that it still got that bass, just within the first 20 seconds.

The mid range performance is gorgeous and paired with a tube rolled Xduoo MT602 hyrbid tube amp (stock tubes sounded too solid-statey), it is honey and soooooo easy to just put on these headphones and just enjoy music, to chill and relax. The treble is pretty tame and never gets piercing (unlike the Shuoer S12 IEMs...). Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of more "exciting" headphones out there, but for vocal-heavy pop and folk music and acoustic, I am more than satisfied with these.

I've had them for 2-3 months now, and if I had to have only one headphone for the rest of my life, I would be happy with the 650, they are damn near perfect for me and most of my music tastes.

Just a small example of music that I thoroughly enjoyed on the HD650 are:

Eivør - Falling Free (Live in Torshavn)

Susanne Sundfør - Undercover

Susanne Sundfør - When the Lord

AURORA - The Devil is Human

AURORA - Exhale Inhale

An honorable mention is Elton John's Can You Feel the Love Tonight, I almost shed a tear because his voice just sounds so beautiful there.

However of course, the HD 650 isn't without drawbacks. With orchestra music like Hans Zimmer stuff, it is almost underwhelming, and the intimate sound stage that usually I like just does not do well to give a sense of grandness to the music, everything feels cramped in and almost blended together, example is the Inception soundtrack by Hans Zimmer.

As such, although the HD 650, is near perfect to me personally, I am getting a Hifiman Sundara some time next week, for the more "exciting" music. I've had the pleasure to try one at a local store, just for a few short minutes, really liked it but did not feel like it was better than the HD 650, just different, more energetic and punchy with a wider soundstage, something to pair well with the 650 I hope!

This is my first ever audio stuff write up, I'm still a total noob in the topic but trying to learn as much as possible, hope it wasn't too boring!

I just switched from HD 58x’s to Sundaras. They are a noticeable upgrade. More so than I was expecting. Skipped the HD600/650/6XX/660s with the expectation they wouldn’t be quite as resolving as I was looking for. The Sundaras certainly offer more clarity than the HD 58x’s and have cleaner deeper bass.

Yup, but I wouldn't trade that mid range for anything, love it too much.

But you’re listening to Spotify…

So? The difference between Tidal HiFi and Spotify Premium is so tiny that I am more than willing to sacrifice that "downgrade" in quality for a user interface that I much prefer. I'm not here to pick apart tiny nuances in music 24/7, I'm here to enjoy music.

Don't "source shame".

It’s really not. There’s a marked difference between Apple Music and Spotify that you can tell on earbuds and that’s before you get into lossless downloads

Sure, dude.

Just seems dumb to spend money on headphones and amps to then put in shit it. As the saying goes shit in shit out

There is no way you're talking down on Spotify... bruh some people in this space are insufferable

It’s a shit platform for audio quality? Not really a secret.

Ain't no way you wrote that with a straight face and hit send on that🤣... If 320 kbps is shit then your ears must be that of a bat (which I know it's not) and needs that good"Hi-Res" or whatever it is straight from the studio... Funny

It’s Oggs so yes it is. Codec matters

Another "FLAC sounds much better" cultist or just a troll?

OGG isn't the codec... The codec is called Vorbis. OGG is the container like MQA, FLAC. With Vorbis being the codec used to store data in OGG container.

Also Vorbis is a very efficient codec, much better than mp3 and generally able to maintain a higher level of audio quality at lower bitrates meaning less data used for the same fidelity.

MQA is trash and also lossy like OGG Vorbis but that's a talk for another day... Have a good day

Gotta ask why not just get a hd6xx, thanks for the music recommendations. Never knew I would like this

He must have them GOLDEN EARS /s Or you know, just a gatekeeping snob.

I'm currently living in Singapore, so no way to have Drop ship them here direct. And MSRP for HD650 here is insane, usually $500++ USD.

Definitely can understand what you are hearing and feeling. Over a decade ago I got my first HD650, and over the years tried many sets, even picked up a second 650 after selling my first. After a number of flagships, I've settled on the HD660S. These are the ones.

It’s ogg Vorbis, I was shortening it.

It’s efficient but it doesn’t sound good vs other options that offer lossless audio streaming

Really? Just checked that it ships to Malaysia

Lossless is better? That’s well established. But even then I’m not saying everyone should have a library of 24 bit FLAC files it’s just competing services have lossless audio if you want it as standard. Buying hugest end equipment and not using the service that has the better audio uplift just seems a bit dumb

I said "much better", not just "better" about sound quality. In some scenarios it can be better of course, but I don't think that better sound quality in lossless can be detected every time. And it can't be "MUCH better" than Spotify

The only objectively "better" service would be Apple's Hi Res Lossless Option for streaming, AmazonHD's Hi-Fi, Qobuz, Deezer Hi-Fi but in the end most people can't tell the difference unless they're actively listening for differences... I can tell the differences but honestly for most times I'm not looking for which pin dropped in the studio Spotify is near identical when actually enjoying music and not trying to not pick. I have lossless CDs and stuff saved through Qobuz but I use those rarely and would cancel my Qobuz subscription soon.

What even is better is getting a well mastered and dynamic range checked piece of music... If it's lossy, doesn't matter, that would sound far better than a terribly mastered and dynamic range squashed recording that is in lossless form.. but hey, "lossless" is better I guess.

Generally lossless files are mastered better. That’s why apple has its digital masters or “mastered for iTunes” badge as they’re mastered for lossless playback

If you did a blind test between oggs and a lossless file like a FLAC or ALAC people would be able to tell. Point is if you’re spending money on shit you don’t need like amps why would you not just get a better source when it’s readily available.

Definitely am Interested in a 660S! Pretty dang pricey where I'm at though

I can list so many lossless albums with terrible dynamic range and shit mastering but yes generally Lossless albums should have more fidelity honestly

Ok, maybe it is just your brain that tries to pretend it (the big difference in sound quality)

And if they can’t master for lossless then they’re not going to be able to do it for sub CD quality either will they?

Dude Spotify isn’t near the same as FLAC. It’s worse than AAC at a lower bitrate

The 650's mids are quite unique, I might say.

Reason why I said mixing and mastering is actually more important than fussing over if something is lossy... I'd take a genuinely good master at 256kbps over some jumbled mess of a dynamic range read at 1411 kbps

Bruh, do I have just the thing for you.

I recorded a series of samples from Spotify and compared them to others taken from Apple Music, Tidal, and Qobuz.

Before you go any further, I would suggest you head over to the link below, download and listen to a few of them and see for yourself how that "marked difference" vanishes when you don't know which one you're listening to.

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/ymk4fj/curious_to_see_if_apple_music_tidal_qubuz_really/

Point was that the masters of a particular song will be the same regardless so the same file in FLAC vs say MP3 will have the same bad master. The FLAC will still sound the better of the two

I use Spotify 24/7 and also have LDAC library. Can't find much difference and Spotify is just comfortable.

Also, it is pointless to argue with you. Either it's your brain or you are just trolling.

Love the 650 as well, it was my first really good headphone and it’s still the one I’d never consider selling. It may have some downsides, but it just sounds so extremely good for a lot of music… one of the most tonally pleasant headphones ever.

They would, they ship intl now

Dude I’ve already tested CD vs Spotify vs Apple Music.

Question is what did you record them on?

I think we'd have to end it here... I'm just of the view 320kbps OGG Vorbis is very capable and .flac or .alac files will be "better" but not by a humongous margin that will call for people to overhaul their listening services. You're on Apple Music, kudos. Someone too is on Spotify, more power to them. Another loves their .wav offline stuff, they can carry on and be satisfied regardless.👍🏾

LDAC isn’t lossless dude.

It’s just fact dude

Ye sure

Again it’s more that you’re spending money on headphones, DACs and amps. Why use lossy audio formats? You’re literally wasting money on the amps and DACs at that point

Tested how? Listened to them side by side while jumping back and forth, or an actual blind ABX test?

You can see details of my methodology in the link above.

I've had about a dozen people message me so far and none of them were able consistenly tell Spotify apart from any of the other services.

Sigh... GGs I guess

🤡 Downvoted on every comment, let the man/woman enjoy their music.

You haven’t heard of alt tab I’m guessing?

I tried AB-ing Apple lossless and Spotify before. While I do believe there’s an audible difference between the two, I wouldn’t label Spotify as an inferior streaming service. Their algo in making playlists is topnotch, and their interface is much more user friendly and appealing compared to AM. And at the end of the day, I concur with OP - you’re there to listen and enjoy the music.

People don’t like common sense I guess

Nah dude, people don’t like snobs and jerks

Lol knew it.

You have the unmerited confidence of someone who hasn't actually attempted a blind ABX test of Vorbis @320 versus FLAC.

I genuinely suggest you try it.

Yup, saying that there’s no point spending a bunch on a dac and amp when you’re using a lossy source is being snobby.

Isn’t AAC only at 256kbps max? Btw, YouTube Music’s quality is also at 256kbps, max. AB’d Spotify and YTM, can’t tell the difference.

Let people enjoy their music, man. And maybe be more respectful in giving your opinions.

Again you haven’t heard of alt tab which allows you to do a blind ABX test?

Being snobby isn’t on the message, it’s on the delivery of said message. Carry on.

No I haven't.

Do go on and explain it to me in your own words

Sample rate isn’t everything. Layman’s terms lossy codecs strip bits of the file away to keep the “important” part but reduces file size by getting rid of less import parts. Different codecs do this in different ways meaning you can get one that sounds better at a lower sample rate.

So ABX test would be listening to two sources and then randomly listening to one of them again to see if you can distinguish if it was A or B. You can open two windows, stay with me here, listen to the same point in a song on each tab then resetting to the start without looking using Alt tab to skip between tabs and then, here’s the tricky part, you can HOLD alt tab for a period of time which causes it to rapidly jump windows, randomising the window you land on. Then you can listen for a third time and then draw conclusions.

Cable looks nice is that the default or aftermarket?

Serious? Last I checked when I was shopping they didn't, so guess that's nice

Also context

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I always found my 650s a little bass heavy and muddied. Give the hd800 cans a listen. They're the super clean and a little less bass heavy than the 650s . Highs and staging are beautiful on the 800 . I've never heard the 800s model , probably just a little more refined.

Years ago I remember there was a link on the sennheiser web page to your own headphone readings using your serial number . Not sure if they still have that on there.

M.

Too rich for my taste currently, but not impossible to see an 800s in my future

Exactly that!

Lol it's not a proper blind test if it's you that's controlling things, regardless of whether you squeeze eyes shut or not.

Plus did you do that at least 10 times per song to rule out the possibilty that you simply guessed the right answer out of sheer luck?

While I admire your inclination to test it out in the first place, I'm afraid that any results you obtained by the method you described above are not reliable whatsoever.

I have included details of how to conduct a proper double-blind ABX and provided links to freely available tools in the link above, should you want to give it a proper go.

Or at least you can simply listen to the samples I recorded side by side and see how they are incredibly hard to tell apart when you don't know which is which.

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Those amps , they change the sound much ? . I have an old headroom powered and battery powered headphones Amp but but doesn't do justice for the 800. I'll have to throw the 650's on it to try .

Noticeable after tube swapping, warmer smoother sound than if I were to connect the headphones to the DX1 alone, which is a really clean solid state dac amp. Stock MT602 sounds very much like a solid state though, so gotta tube roll if you want something more tubey.

Inhale exhale by Aurora vocals are panned to bit left or my hd650 is defective ?? I want to know??

Um… you just don’t look at the display? You don’t control where the alt tab lands because you have no way of knowing. You do it at the start so you don’t know what A or B is and and you don’t know what X is. That like saying a randomisation algorithm isn’t random because you pressed go.

5 consecutive results is what a 3% chance of guessing all 5 correct?

Kinda are though. Unless you think someone can count in hundredths of a second to know what tab they’re currently on?

Center stage to me🤔weird..

Mate, your method fails on multiple levels.

You haven't done an actual blind test.

You don't get to act with this level of arrogance when you haven't even done that much.

But on my hd650 it sound like vocals are coming from left side .

Her main vocal sounds center to me, but the backing vocal are the side

Believe me, it saved you 😅

Oh , give these albums a try if you haven't already . They're magical with good headphones.

Steven Wilson - hand cannot erase (or any of his albums honestly) Daft punk - random access memories / Tron legacy soundtrack Arturo Sandoval- Trump evolution (sound on that one is epic) Yes - closer to the edge (Steven Wilson remaster) Pink Floyd- The Wall / Wish you were here / Dark side of the moon Gladiator Soundtrack

SO many others . You found any great sounding albums ? I'll give them a go. On gaming nights I stick in the ie800s monitors and just listen to full albums on edibles . It's Bliss.

M.

Guess I'll be stuck in "mid fi" for quite a while, thankfully!

This imbalance can be caused bcuz of less power bcuz I'm using it of my phone using Abigail dongle ?? Or should i send to Sennheiser for service or repair ??

I don’t think you know what a blind test is. So you believe that if you listen to two sources, and you do not know what either of those two sources are, you then listen to one of those again after a process after which you have no way of knowing which source you’re listing to isn’t random? It doesn’t matter who presses the button. If you have no way of knowing there’s no way of knowing. You’ve just got caught out

Do other songs seem like this to you? Because this particular song likes to play around with different "directions"

Oh that’s proper hifi, don’t let the existence of multi-1000-dollar/euro/etc headphones discourage you! It was never really my thing, but if I had liked it, I don’t know if I would have ever looked for more.

Heyyyyyyy Singapore gang! Had you spent much time at Zeplin Co. At sim lim square? I had 650’s and thought I’d be happy with those until I ran across an ad on Carousell for a pair of HD800 @ S$700 🤤. The 650’s were gone in 3 months 🤣

Hi! I was going to visit them once but...closed😵 their offday...oh well! Only visited sam audio so far. Carousell is full of good stuff, have a sundara from there reserved!

Yes, Rockstar by post malone also sound like his vocals and instrument coming from left. Do you also felt same ?? Please tell?

I know, just the term to gauge price range. Hate the term but many people use it😂

I just sold the 800’s and got a pair of Hifiman Arya V2’s they are very similar to the HE1000. See if Zeplin has some they are my forever endgame. One day when I can have 2 pairs of end game cans I’ll buy an HD800S for specialty listening, classical/jazz, but for everything I listen to on a reg Arya is it. Also FANTASTIC for movies.

Yes his vocals sound center stage to me, definitely try to claim warranty on your unit

Fancyyy

Very cool! It's so nice to hear success stories, especially those who don't spend top $$$ on insanely expensive gear but are still able to enjoy what they have. While armed with the knowledge that there is definitely a law of diminishing returns, I feel that I have a duty to find amazing sound for less $$$. So far so good on my journey.

However, after spending some time with my HD600s, I sometimes wish that I picked up the HD650s because I like a little more bass in my music that EQing just can't fix in my HD600s. Don't get me wrong, I love the 600s, I just want more low-end.

I have tried various dac/amp combos on the HD600s as well minus a tube amp (which I am currently in the market for) and while I can get better results with a warmer dac/amp combo + EQing, it still isn't where I prefer it to sound, overall. I simply cannot add enough bass.

So, that leads me to think that I should probably pick up the HD650s at some point + a decent tube amp and see where that takes me. I also have an opportunity to pick up some Focal Clears for a REALLY good deal and they are supposed to have pretty good low-end without mudding up the mids while keeping the imaging, detail, and soundstage that I prefer so I might give that a shot.

Either way, I will never get rid of my HD600s. They still sound absolutely amazing on vocals and string instruments. (they are also great for watching movies).

Thanks for sharing and enjoy your music!

We’ll I’ve been very fortunate to be able to buy low and sell high also I moved back to the US so different markets. With all the finagling I think I would up around $500 in for $3.8k of gear🤣 I’m not normal. If I ever have a renters insurance claim they are not going to be able to reconcile my income vs. the value to replace all my stuff at msrp 😂

Cable name please??

Thought about getting one of those tube Amp kits. Then replace the stock tube with good stuff. A friend did that a swears by it. I'd pick up a Schiit combo . Kinda pricy though.

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I'm scared to give my headphone to their service centre bcuz they might make it worst or might replace it from fake unit. Bcuz here brands after sale service is shit bcuz there is no consumer laws here .

Before changing anything about the headphones, make sure your ears are OK, and test with other headphones. You could just have a slight earwax buildup

Agreed female vocalists with the 650/6XX are amazing.

Try Norah Jones - Come Away With Me. Really intimate; like she’s singing right into your ears.

When i bought it at that time it didn't had any issue but now this vocals and instruments panning to left or right not center

Exactly, it might not be a problem of the headphones

The regular 650 has slightly better build, and better colors, I would trade my 6xx for a 650.

Aftermarket. Regular cable is just a long black one.

Sitting here listening to A Moon Shaped Pool on my trusty old 650's, and I only kinda regret selling my SDR-modded HD800's a few years ago.

The 800's are something special. That said the bleed is insane, and I couldn't warrant them sitting around only being used to listen to Yo Yo Ma and Steely Dan to death. That said, I miss the space the 800's created--hard to beat, but damn those things are big.

What?? Sent it back to sennheiser straight lol

650's are indeed great, nothing quite made me stop and just vibe to music again like it did. And not to mention orchestra with them, I dislike the words "lush mids" but that's definitely how it sounded.

"I Was Born For This" by Austin Wintory always gets me the 650.

Things not working like this here. You have to take to service centre and they will decide what to do with the product. If it was that easy i wouldn't be asking these questions instead just sending them to Sennheiser

Arlo Parks too, but I listen to her on my 600s. Pretty much the same signature

Do you recall where you got it?

Same... Ive got the hd650, dt880 and fostex th-x00's as my trio. I do have the sony XM4's but thats for travel and outdoor use so dont really count that as part of this.

​

HD650's are the endgame for me.... i stopped it there to save myself down a rabbit hole haha

I'm using razer kraken, i notice where they sometimes miss clarity but i use eq. In a scale of 0 - 100% percentage, where 100% is listening live in studio and is unachievable, how does sundara and sennheiser feel in your experience? the website rtings gives a score of 8.4 out of 10 of neutral sound to sundara, I don't think i can trust it fully

I absolutely love my HD650s/HD6XXs, here's one of my favorite songs to listen to with them.

I would like to know what Tubes do you use for your MT-602? I bought some Sylvania Golds but found them too bright for my tastes. Would like a more fluid, tubey sounding tube for them like you described...

The 660S is an awesome headphone too (my pick if I could have only one headphone under $2k USD), more of an all rounder than the 650, but since you're getting the Sundara too you will be covered and having variety is so much fun.

Sennheiser has a special place in my heart

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Hope you enjoy!

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Wait till you get the 800S

Why did you decide on a 650 and not a 6XX?

The 6XX is wasn't available to ship to my country straight from Drop at that time, got a good deal on a brand new 650, and I think the grey color looks better too

Do yourself a favor and never listen to focal clears

I feel it'll be different, I like the intimacy of vocals on the 650

Be sure to never hear the LCD2 :)

FLAC is a codec, it’s literally in the name

Funny how I hated my hd650s had them for like 2 weeks and went back to my good ol' dt990 that don't hide any sound from me

Yikes

Actually have those in my sights lol, just gonna be a while later

I'm honestly surprised you noticed anything at all, afaik the tube is in the power section on that amp and has little effect tonal effect. Save up for a bottlehead crack and build it yourself, that will make a whole nother level of smooth music come out of the 650s. They are also amazing with hd800s as a bonus.

I'm not OP.

How much did the sound change when tube rolling? I have a TA-26 and that thing is surprisingly clean, almost solid state lol. Like still obviously better, but not vastly different.

Adding Morphit to the chain in "reference/correction" mode was a huge improvement for my personal tastes and needs, probably much better value for me than trying to buy better headphones.

It takes away the mid bass hump, moderately counters the deep bass roll-off, clarifies some parts of the spectrum that have a bit of "clutter", makes everything have a little bit more "bite" and "kick" while retaining that smooth natural timbre.

Bought them closer to the memories of the sound of some old secondhand Stax I had in the late 80's.

Free to try, so long as you have a VST capable player.

Other people's ears and tastes will vary though.

Just wanted to chime in from personal experience going from the 650s->sundara->anandas the sundara gave me a great glimpse into what good planars can do but I really didn’t consider them a complete upgrade from the 650s like the anandas. Mainly in terms of bass separation and overall soundstage. The Sundaras would certainly be a great compliment to the 650s though.

As someone who now has a pair of Hifiman Anandas as my daily driver and previously owned the 650s and fell in love with their sound. Are the clears good enough to warrant their price if I miss my 650s or would the 6XX be good enough to scratch the itch every once in a while.

> Free to try, so long as you have a VST capable player.

USB Audio Player Pro also has Morphit as an add-on, for mobile users who may be interested in trying it out.

The joy I felt seeing Aurora in the background 🥲

Comparing 650's to HD800 lolllllllll oh the hd800's are better? No way

Bass heavy on 650s ? 0.0

You like the sparkly sound

HD800 are definitely what you are looking for

Ultrasones (idk if they still in business) mays be a good fit too

I tried to like the 650s but they just weren’t doing it for me. I don’t get the hype.

I find Philips Fidelio 2XHR are a perfect compliment to HD650's. They are the headphone for that "grand" music the 650's can't deliver on. Go buy some now!

What headphone preamps are you plugged into there? I have really been considering buying one for better listening with my headphones until I can get a better pair. I think you have sold me on these as the next purchase after that.

FLAC is both a container and the codec... Yes I should've been more specific in that regard but you can store .wav files in a flac container... Same as lossy files being polished as flac files when they're not lossless files

My bad!

See your problem is fatigue. Listen to some crappy cans for a while then come back to the best ones. Get some superlux, they're good enough but crappy enough, when you come back to your expensive cans you will surely appreciate them better.

Try Oratory1990's EQ preset. For me it doubles the sound quality.

I am reading this with pain and jealousy. I'm broke.

Shes so good!

I'm just using the Topping DX1 as a DAC and Xduoo MT602 as the amp

What? I already appreciate the hd650 a bunch, I'm not going to buy some garbage cans and waste money.

And that's fine, they're vocal specialists

Try to save up slowly

I wasn't wowed by them when I first got them, but going back to something else after using them for a while taught me how good they really are.

The "veil" is definitely noticeable and they require EQ to really show their potential.

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How do you know something is crappy before trying it? How do you know your cans aren't crappy without a point of reference? I guess you have the gaming headsets to compare to.

Common sense

>Are the clears good enough to warrant their price

I mean... that depends on you and how you feel about the near kilobuck price range my guy. I think so, but I also hate knowing the headband is a ticking timebomb

HD6xx series are all so good.

OP, fyi posted your comment to my new sub, r/RedditorReviews.

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hi which tubes do you use on the mt 602??

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