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Kavbastyrd t1_jdtypax wrote

Reply to comment by atlantis_airlines in Oldest tartan found to date back to 16th Century - A scrap of fabric found in a Highland peat bog 40 years ago is likely to be the oldest tartan ever discovered in Scotland, new tests have established. by ArtOak

William Wallace was born in 1270, but Mel Gibson was covered in tartan. Braveheart lied to us, man. Also, the main theme for Braveheart was actually played on an Irish oileann pipe and not bagpipes. The primary reason for this is because bagpipes sound like they’re constructed from the larynx of a hyena.

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beadebaser t1_jdud085 wrote

As a medieval historian described it, depicting William Wallace as wearing a tartan kilt and woad paint on his face in the 13th century is similar to making a film about George Washington where he leads his forces into battle wearing a modern day business suit and a native war bonnet

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TiberiusClackus t1_jduty3n wrote

Yeah but if it starred Mel Gibson in his prime I’d probably still watch it and love it

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daviator88 t1_jduybp0 wrote

It's a great movie, just not historical at all whatsoever

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Tap_Z_or_R_Twice t1_jdv2xpm wrote

Well there definitely was someone named William Wallace before so it's slightly historical.

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Ctotheg t1_jdvfd8n wrote

Braveheart was the nickname for King Robert the Bruce, not William Wallace.

And when Wallace was executed it was worse than the film: Four different horses, one per limb, dragged Wallace for miles to his execution. He was hanged almost to the point of death, before being taken down and horrifically mutilated. While still breathing, his genitals were sliced off, his entrails pulled out, and his innards burned in front of him. It was only then Wallace was decapitated and dismembered. Wallace's head was placed on London Bridge, while the four quarters of his body were placed in Stirling, Aberdeen, Berwick, and Newcastle.

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[deleted] t1_jdvg1xh wrote

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[deleted] t1_jdvufuj wrote

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AuntieDawnsKitchen t1_jdvum5d wrote

And yet not as disturbing as the fact that Princess Isabella would have been 3 at that point.

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leicanthrope t1_jdwijoz wrote

Apparently the author is a descendent, or at least claims to be. The earlier drafts of the script are much more one-sided and fanboy-esque, to the point where they're approaching "everybody clapped" territory.

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DeusEx-Machinist t1_jdx9e49 wrote

Many years ago when I was in high school, my teacher told us that Wallace was castrated first, then drug by horse. I'm not sure which is worse, frankly.

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Knows_all_secrets t1_jdv660z wrote

Just like it would be slightly historical if there was a film about George Washington wearing a modern day business suit and a native war bonnet sneaking his forces across the Delaware Bridge in the night.

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supafluous t1_jdv9md3 wrote

Preposterous. Surely he would use the Washington Crossing Bridge.

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FirstChurchOfBrutus t1_jdwt9gw wrote

They did. It was called The Patriot, and it was every bit as accurate as what was just described.

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TiberiusClackus t1_jdx4k28 wrote

I’ve seen it about a dozen times and would watch it again tonight. Mel Gibson was made of solid gold from 1995-2005

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FirstChurchOfBrutus t1_jdxa41i wrote

As someone who lived in Charleston when it was being filmed, and as someone who has a special place in his heart for Nathaniel Greene, I do enjoy watching it. It’s just that, like the musket balls they fired, it is not the kind of thing I expect to have any sort of accuracy. If I were a(n) Historian, I would be aghast at the liberties (pun intended) taken by this film.

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Kataphractoi t1_jdy7urt wrote

> If I were a(n) Historian, I would be aghast at the liberties (pun intended) taken by this film.

Medieval historians tend to view A Knight's Tale favorably. But that could be because AKT wasn't trying to be historical and was more just telling a story in a setting. Even with the anachronisms and other inaccuracies, the film still captures the atmosphere and mood that would've been present at a historical medieval tournament.

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wittor t1_jdwo5ui wrote

The problem is the widely accepted misconception that the historical moment happened as it is shown in the movie.
Like the joke, It is all fun and games untill people start to talk abou Abu Nazir as a real person.

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AstrumRimor t1_jdvb0am wrote

So what would he actually have worn? Furs and leathers?

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Snickims t1_jdvltt1 wrote

Armor and probably leather. Hell, just look up some art of the battle and you can get a pretty good picture.

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ShieldOnTheWall t1_jdxtwv1 wrote

He would have looked to you very similar to a "templar" or "Crusader" knight.

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Kataphractoi t1_jdy86n6 wrote

The real William Wallace was a minor noble, so metal armor of some kind. Probably not plate beyond what his helm would've been made of, but maille for sure.

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DrWilhelm t1_jdu1qd9 wrote

Hey man, what did hyenas do to deserve that comparison?

And yeah, Braveheart is hilariously inaccurate in so many ways. You'd think that something called the Battle of Stirling Bridge might have taken place in the vicinity of a bridge, but ol' Mel will sure cure you of that little misconception!

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McWeaksauce91 t1_jdv6gtb wrote

They actually tried to film on the bridge! There’s a fun piece of trivia where the director(?) was frustrated how difficult it was to use the bridge. The historian on scene(?) said something to the effect of: “the English thought the same”

Edit: from IMDB, “When asked by a local why the Battle of Stirling Bridge was filmed on an open plain, Gibson answered that "the bridge got in the way." "Aye," the local answered. "That's what the English found."

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Bodark43 t1_jdum4ny wrote

The English would have been as likely to be playing bagpipes in the 13th century as the Scots.

But the harsh sound of Highland pipes can to some extent be blamed on relatively recent pipeband competitions. The 18th century ones, before the Victorian Scottish revival, were sweeter, pitched at A, not Bb. But when a competition is between pipe bands, includes drums and is set outside on a parade ground ( instead of listening to a lone piper in someone's house) the edgier sound wins.

The 18th c. pipes sounded more like present-day Border pipes Lively enough to play for a dance, but not maddeningly loud.

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Dlo-Nainamsat t1_jdug04u wrote

There is so many historically wrong issues with Brave Heart but I still enjoyed it more than once.

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Harrintino t1_jduvyti wrote

Same. Movies are for enjoyment and fun. I didn't watch gladiator to touch up on my Roman history.

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vinicelii t1_jduy6ij wrote

One of my favorite things about Gladiator (looking past how the history is entirely bs of course) is that they actually toned DOWN how crazy Commodus probably was irl. The man thought he was a reincarnation of Hercules and regularly took up arms in the Colosseum instead of doing imperial duties.

He didn't kill his dad though.

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yarrpirates t1_jdv5je1 wrote

He carried a huge wooden club around, and regularly had disabled people tortured to death in the Colosseum! Man was crazy as a bag of arsehair.

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sojayn t1_jdwk42c wrote

Man, a bag of arsehair is a good evaluation of crazy thanks!

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recycled_ideas t1_jdxnvxc wrote

> is that they actually toned DOWN how crazy Commodus probably was irl.

It's really hard to determine how much of that is true. Roman historians have a tendency to paint emperors they don't like as degenerates regardless of the actual truth and Roman imperial dynasties are so short lived that no one cares enough to stop them.

Commodus pissed off the Senators and a lot of the historians we have accounts of are of or associated with the Senatorial class. He seems to have been pretty popular with the people.

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seaworthy-sieve t1_jdxza75 wrote

>The man thought he was a reincarnation of Hercules

Fun fact, Alexander the Great believed he was a descendant of both Heracles (patrilineally) and Achilles (matrilineally). He slept with a copy of the Iliad.

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saudadeusurper t1_jdv3bp0 wrote

Yeah, but I think Braveheart is notorious and uniquely inaccurate for what almost amounts to a biopic.

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The--Strike t1_jdvu83r wrote

I read a historian’s critique of what makes Braveheart is so horribly anachronistic. They basically said that everything was not only out of date, but worn incorrectly.

They said an equivalent would be a film about the American Revolutionary War where all the soldiers wore 20th century business suits, but wore them backwards.

This really ruined Braveheart for me.

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missanthropocenex t1_jdujk9g wrote

Yeah go look at old illustrations even. They do have kilt like clothing but they were generally solid colors and I believe were yellow mostly.

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AstrumRimor t1_jdvbwce wrote

I think those might be leather. The Romans often bitched about how the British tribes were barbarians still wearing animal skins lol

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_Fibbles_ t1_jdvwkyu wrote

Maybe, but that was nearly a thousand years earlier. There were no Scots in Britain when the Romans were here.

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AstrumRimor t1_jdvzsd7 wrote

Oh lol my bad. I just finished bingeing the Fall of Civilizations series on YouTube and all of human history is one big scrambled mess in my brain now. It all happened in the same year, way back when, basically lol.

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monsantobreath t1_jdyiosj wrote

The problem with Scotland is that it's full of... Belgians? Bugger.

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machon89 t1_jdw0wvr wrote

Ahhh Braveheart - where the Battle of Stirling Bridge didn't actually feature any bridge.

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EclipseoftheHart t1_je2gq31 wrote

Its really common when it comes to movie & entertainment costuming to more or less “adapt” period clothing using more contemporary cuts/textiles/colors etc. as both a tool to relate better to modern audiences and so they don’t look “too weird”.

Every time a period piece comes out historical costuming spaces implode with debate about historical accuracy with people coming from both “it should be as historically accurate as possible otherwise the movie is a sloppy terrible mess” and “historical accuracy is important, but costume designers often pair accuracy with deliberate anachronistic choices to accentuate the story and a character’s personality”.

Good times.

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Gezz66 t1_je3fhj7 wrote

The file, The Outlaw King, goes some way to repairing the damage with not a kilt or tartan in sight. Not very good otherwise unfortunately.

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