TavindaFFLCH t1_iv2fe8l wrote on November 4, 2022 at 7:40 PM

I have only a slight idea of Italian and German history, however, if I had to guess I would say that Italy has a stronger degree of "cultural division" because historically it's regions had very different influences. The south of Italy remained under Spanish rule for a long time, and had more contact with the Arabs, as for the North it experimented more"freedom". They were safer from the Spanish and other influences, and were able to develop "by themselves". Central Italy was ruled directly by the pope for ages. Also, we can't forget that the sense of "cultural identity" comes from the 19th century, before then language was not a major cultural marker, but because modern Italian has very distinct dialects, they might have remained aa means to locals maintain the fragmentation that once existed. That's a wild guess tho.

jimmymd77 t1_iv2p7si wrote on November 4, 2022 at 8:46 PM

I would note that Italy also had a an influx of different peoples in the wake of the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Obviously there were goths, but also Lombards that moved into the north.

I would also point out that trade made many aristocratic families and their corresponding cities crazy wealthy without the corresponding land and population. Their long links to the Mediterranean allowed them to develop monopolies with Eastern trade as the gateway to the Catholic west. This is probably why mercenaries were so popular - money, but not a lot of foot soldiers. This might be how they could stay divided as long as they did, and not conquered by someone else. It also made them rivals and emphasized some of their local culture as a matter of pride.

TheeEssFo t1_iv2s6tm wrote on November 4, 2022 at 9:07 PM

I can go with this. Germans were by no means homogenized, but they were more than the Italian states. Divisions in Germany today tend to be the prosperous West vs. the still re-emerging East. In Italy, there's outright racism directed toward southerners. Italy is more like the former Yugoslavia.

Plus, while both Italy and Germany were ruled by the Holy Roman Empire, the transfer to a more Austria-based kingdom would have been less severe to the Germans than the Italians, who would have felt driven to unite in order to remove an invading alien culture as opposed to Germans just wanting statehood. Maybe. I wasn't actually there.