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LeoSolaris t1_ix9dt16 wrote

250 years old is not really that ancient. Especially for a culture that is several thousand years old.

Edit: 150 because I can't both math and type at the same time.

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kruzer912 t1_ix9fd1y wrote

Actually if I’m reading it right they wrote it’s about 150 years old, so more in the timeframe of Ancient US President Abraham Lincoln

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Calcaneum t1_ixacnv4 wrote

> Experts said that the merchant ship dates back to the reign of the Qing Dynasty Tongzhi Emperor (1862-1875).

147-160yrs, for anybody reading your comment and wondering!

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Terrh t1_ixbjkvp wrote

But that's when it was built, not when it sunk.

They aren't sure when it sunk and it might have been less than 100 years ago based upon some of what has been found on board.

So not really all that ancient, but still really really interesting!

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Jak_n_Dax t1_ixa16xr wrote

You mean ancient Egyptian Pharoh Abraham Lincoln?

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GrantMK2 t1_ixa7n05 wrote

That's a really under-appreciated part of the Book of Exodus.

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Jellicle_Tyger t1_ixdesk6 wrote

It really sets up the ironic reversal when he signs the emancipation proclamation millenia later.

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mekatzer t1_ixbtj7r wrote

You mean like in the Ken Burns cave paintings?

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mauganra_it t1_ixa8l6q wrote

It can be argued to be a translation error, but Chinese history does not share the sharp divide in Western history around the 5th century when the Western Roman Empire collapsed. For the Chinese, modern Chinese history starts with the Opium Wars. Everything before that is considered ancient Chinese history, as the Opium Wars are the harbinger of the eventual demise of Imperial China.

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RollinThundaga t1_ixabtd4 wrote

Then an interpretation error on part of the translator; if it's being translated for an English-speaking audience, then they won't pick up on that cultural difference.

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Roastbeef3 t1_ixaoz7z wrote

But this ship post dates even the opium wars. Not by a lot, but it does

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jonnycash11 t1_ixbgmwz wrote

I think you mean “Feudal China” not ancient.

Ancient China would be the Zhou or Shang dynasties, maybe even the legendary Xia dynasty.

The Chinese 古代 period ends about 2000BC, based on this baidubaike (Chinese Wikipedia) article.

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Maleficent_Moose_802 t1_ixctgo7 wrote

Indeed, to the Chinese, if a historical period still have detailed and believable records, it is not ancient enough.

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Naritai t1_ixba4qw wrote

The word 'ancient' has certain meanings in the English language, and 150 years old isn't ancient.

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the_very_next_day t1_ixc3jrw wrote

I'd have thought that modern Chinese history starts with the fall of the qing dynasty, but anyway there's a difference between "not modern" and "ancient"

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mauganra_it t1_ixc53ba wrote

The decline of Chinese civilization during the 19th century is a major departure from the flow of Chinese history until then. China has been conquered many times, but so far the conquerors always assimilated to Chinese civilization. Colonization by foreign powers and the Unequal Treaties were a new pattern, and these events still loom large in the collective psyche of the Chinese people.

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Eurymedion t1_ix9mmi9 wrote

Early Late-modern period shipwreck is more appropriate.

Probably a translation error.

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LeoSolaris t1_ix9ohr8 wrote

Highly likely a translation error. I'd be curious to know what the original phrase was and what shades of meaning it had originally

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phenyle t1_ixbxfw6 wrote

It might be the character 古, which can mean either simply "old" or "ancient", depending on the context

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dusmeyedin t1_ixdbgxd wrote

I'd agree, China has plenty of artifacts from the times of the "ancients" (e.g. Shang Dynasty bronzeware, from 1600 BCE to 1000 BCE) that are far older than this.

If we're talking archeological eras, then this might be best termed "pre-Industrial", since the Qing Dynasty resolutely resisted industrialization.

However, from the viewpoint of a modern Chinese person, it's also worth noting that in the space of 150 years they had a collapse of a dynasty, the rise and collapse of numerous warlord states, the failure of a new Republic (complete with an abortive attempt by the president to name himself new Emperor), and finally the establishment of a Communist state.

The fact that the Communist government has held power for a (comparatively brief) 70+ years still puts it at one of the more stable forms of government in the past generation or two.

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toyyya t1_ixc51pt wrote

Even we here in Sweden have raised a pretty darn big ship from the 1600s and have since put it on display in a museum.

We did that in the 60s, it ain't exactly a huge innovation to be able to do so

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[deleted] t1_ixca9kp wrote

[deleted]

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toyyya t1_ixcaxb2 wrote

Pretty darn cool, you can definitely tell the difference in the seas of how well it survived in the waters.

We raised the Vasa out of the Baltic Sea which isn't quite salty or quite fresh water (aka brackish water). Meaning that there are less creatures able to break it down living in the waters which is why it survived relatively intact.

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LiTMac t1_ixcxvwt wrote

When I went to the museum about 4 or 5 years ago, I remember someone telling me that part of what helped was also the amount of trash that had been thrown into the fjord over the centuries, which created an anoxic environment down the bottom of the water.

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imafraidofmuricans t1_ixcozhh wrote

It does depend on where the boat is. Like, the Baltic has perfect conditions for preserving the wood and is quite shallow.

Had Vasa sunk over the Marian trench we wouldn't be picking it, is my point.

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bobrobor t1_ixd8ad4 wrote

The US raised a submarine from that time, so yeah it is not ancient by any stretch of imagination.

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