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Oksamis t1_ixh196y wrote

Surly all that would prove was his ancestry, not necessarily where he was born


malthar76 t1_ixh2bm7 wrote

Not an expert, but I believe there are tests that look for certain proportions of isotopes found in food and water unique to local population from a specific era.


artaig t1_ixh3mag wrote

This is tricky, as Columbus was indeed in Galicia for a time. What they try to link (proove) is Columbus parentage with an attested Columbus (Colón) family that lived for a time (since recorded at least) in a particular area of Galicia.

The start of this trend of "Columbus was Galician" stem from his writings, in alleged Galician. I myself think it's in reality "(Mediterranean) Lingua Franca", a sort of common words and grammar from all Romance languages mostly spoken by sailors. Galician, with extremely conservative Latin elements, may be considered the closest one.


TywinDeVillena t1_ixh9ac4 wrote

Columbus, like any good sailor or merchant at that day and age, could communicate in every language, but didn't speak any language well. Though there is no proof, it is a perfectly safe guess to assume he was fairly acquainted with "sabir".


DaddyCatALSO t1_ixknrrr wrote

I can imagine that auxiliary goe s back that far and farther


Punaholic t1_ixhyivi wrote

I have been to the cathedral where Columbus in entombed, if memory serves, one of his relatives - I think maybe his father is also entombed there. The tour guide indicated to us that prior genetic testing had confirmed the family linkage. So, a less historical tomb is also available for confirmational genetic testing.


Pochel t1_ixh8ewt wrote

For a sec I was utterly confused with what Colombus had to do with Galicia at all. And then I remembered that Galicia wasn't just a Ukrainian province, but also a Spanish one


valkoholic t1_ixhaf2i wrote

One has Columbus, the other is history’s fighting pit.


BasileusLeoIII t1_ixhuti0 wrote

just like how the Spanish peninsula is called Iberia, and there's a region in the Caucuses also called Iberia

why, ancient geographers??


Jefe710 t1_ixhq2m9 wrote

Found out galicia used to be part of the Austro-Hungarian empire.


Phaidenson t1_ixhxfbj wrote

My wife's family immigrated from that region long ago. I have been digging up information about here and there, it's cool to find new things about it.


Pecos_Bill91 t1_ixk8rby wrote

Technically I think they both may have been part of the same country under Charles V?


ElHeim t1_ixvg0l9 wrote

Same Crown, not same "country". Those concepts were largely disconnected back then. Think of the current Commonwealth: same head of state (whoever is the King/Queen back at the UK), but a collection of independent countries. Not exactly the same concept, but close enough.


Pecos_Bill91 t1_ixvgxnh wrote

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.


Darkhoof t1_ixhaxgz wrote

Hey! The portuguese also have a stake to claim he was born in Portugal.


lostindanet t1_ixhcyxk wrote

After all the language is called galaico-portuguese, oh boy, peeps want to claim being associated with a very morally bankrupt dude that died 500 years ago.


Financial-Midnight62 t1_ixjuees wrote

Judge everything, become no one. Way of Reddit


Rammstein97 t1_ixlaql9 wrote

I've been here since 2012(ish) and I don't think I've seen better words to describe this site.


LowlyScrub t1_ixk0ydn wrote

Not sure why they would want to claim a mass murderer... He is not a person anyone should be proud to be associated with.


TombofSirRichard t1_ixgit15 wrote

Depending on their individual political leanings and how they view figures of the past, this could either be devastating or a huge relief for many Italian-Americans.


imdfantom t1_ixgsjd3 wrote

I assume it would probably be irrelevant for most.


[deleted] t1_ixhlaut wrote



[deleted] t1_ixhnxr1 wrote

What would they think of just renaming Columbus Day to “Italian American Heritage Day”


SparvieroVV t1_ixhq26f wrote

Because honestly this is what should have happened. Then another day for indigenous peoples day. Why did it have to be one or the other?


BasileusLeoIII t1_ixhuy2c wrote

because if we're not busy bickering over this, we might start to think about wealth inequality


SeleucusNikator1 t1_ixirwkw wrote

Or literally just switch Columbus for Amerigo Vespucci or Giovanni Caboto, who were also Italian explorers who mapped out America (and in the case of Amerigo, gave it the name America)


n1ghtbringer t1_ixhpy98 wrote

Fourth gen Italian-American here ... most of us don't care. I'd like to see a more positive example of an Italian with ties to America lauded, but Columbus's ancestry is an interesting historical puzzle and has no bearing on modern Italian-Americans.


fashionvictimprime t1_ixiezbz wrote

I grew up in an Italian American area in NY. Basically every single Italian American I knew growing up was a Columbus super fan, my family outright thinks that every negative thing said about him was a lie (fun fact, I read a passage from a translation of his journal and they said it was written by a liberal to make him look bad until I revealed Columbus wrote it himself), and attach tons of Italian-American ethnic pride to this dude who existed centuries before Italy was a country and never set foot in the USA (minus some Caribbean territories).


[deleted] t1_ixhqdfz wrote



n1ghtbringer t1_ixhvw43 wrote

I'll take your word for it. I definitely know a number of people like that, but I'd like to hope they are a vocal minority.


DarthCorleone t1_ixhugsx wrote

As an Italian-American, I have never celebrated Columbus Day and I'm all for changing it to Indigenous People's Day.


[deleted] t1_ixilkin wrote



very_random_user t1_ixjafnb wrote

>But who cares at this point.

>I strongly oppose any Europeans clinging to their 4th generation cultural heritage though

When I first moved to the US I met people telling me "oh I am Italian too" I would start speaking to them in Italian and they are like "oh no, I don't speak Italian. My grandpa was from Naples" and I was like "what does that mean?". Now I learned. True for any nationality BTW. Met Japanese people never been to Japan, Polish who barely know where Poland is and so on. It's odd frankly. Nationality is a cultural thing, doesn't come with genetics. Someone that grows up in Italy from Chinese parents is actually Italian. Someone that has a grandparent Italian is not. No offense intended, just a fact.


A_Flamboyant_Warlock t1_ixinsa8 wrote

>I strongly oppose any Europeans clinging to their 4th generation cultural heritage though.

But it's cool for everyone else?


[deleted] t1_ixisdah wrote



Ripheus-33 t1_ixizws0 wrote

I don’t see there being an inherent problem with people taking pride in their ancestry, but I agree it’s a slippery slope and there’s examples of people across all ethnicities who take it too far and become full on fascists. What everyone needs to do is just be well rounded and respectful when it comes to cultures.


A_Flamboyant_Warlock t1_ixjawbf wrote

>I don’t see there being an inherent problem with people taking pride in their ancestry,

The problem is that there's no reason to do so, unless you think being X, Y, or Z makes you inherently superior/inferior. National or cultural pride is silly at best, and a breeding ground for xenophobia at worst.


DarthCorleone t1_ixjk2y0 wrote

I don't think there's anything wrong with learning about and appreciating the culture of your ancestors. There is a big step from doing that, to holding your cultural heritage as superior to others. And of course there are many Italians who should be celebrated for their contributions to human civilization, but Columbus is not one of them.


Anonymous_Redhead t1_ixi7ulf wrote

I’m sure there are those people, but we should also remember that people died to make Columbus day a thing for Italian Americans. Just seems weird to take a day away from one people and give it to another because the country oppressed them more.


[deleted] t1_ixilegq wrote



Anonymous_Redhead t1_ixj0zv2 wrote

Eh, I wasn’t that invested in the comment to get nuanced about it. Columbus Day was a holiday created to appease Italian Americans after the worst KKK massacre in history and was slowly Americanized as a way to celebrate the “discovery” of America. I get wanting to be rid of it, I just thought it a bit callous and supremely disingenuous.


[deleted] t1_ixh981k wrote



TheAmericanQ t1_ixhaydd wrote

I see you have never broached the topic of Columbus Day with an Italian American family


levinthereturn t1_ixh1a19 wrote

I think most "italian-americans" don't have any real cultural tie with Italy a part for having an italian sounding surname, for most of them won't change anything.


spideracrossastar t1_ixhmieg wrote

If somehow the wild theory that states that Columbus and Pedro Madruga were in fact the same person is proven true I'm gonna be laughing until the end of time

Tbh most Galicians ( including myself ) have no interest in claiming Columbus historical heritage as ours


ImThatAnnoyingGuy t1_ixi1bzs wrote

Whether he was a “Gallego” or an “Italian” is irrelevant. His “discovery” of the Americas was a complete accident. He was trying to get to the “East Indies” and bumped into another whole continent by chance. Regardless, he did so with Spanish resources and Spanish crews, not Italian. He did so in the name of the Spanish crown. His “rediscovery” of the Americas (because the Vikings “discovered” it for Europeans first) was a Spanish accomplishment, not an Italian one.


very_random_user t1_ixjc3uo wrote

>His “rediscovery” of the Americas (because the Vikings “discovered” it for Europeans first) was a Spanish accomplishment, not an Italian one.

Columbus voyages moved the trade to the Atlantic away from the Mediterranean. In the long term Columbus damaged the Italian peninsula, if anything. Italy was crazy rich compared to a large part of the rwt.of Europe until yhe discovery age. Then became a secondary place and all of the countries in the peninsula suffered. (Granted I am not saying Columbus is the main cause of the Italian decline but he didn't help). PS my understanding is that it is not clear at all that Columbus genuinely believed he was going for the Indies or if that was sort of an excuse to get funded.


ImThatAnnoyingGuy t1_ixkrs0f wrote

His voyage led to Spain becoming a super power and the first “global empire,” wherein Spain would hold assets in all hemispheres be they north, south, east, or west. Southern Italy, namely the kingdom of Naples, was already a vassal of Spain’s. Naples was a vassal to the kingdom of Aragon, which King Ferdinand ruled over. When he married Isabel to further the forging of a united “Hispania,” he brought his vassals to the union as assets. Once the conquests of New Spain began the Spanish Empire grew in wealth and power beyond anything that had been seen since the rise of the Western Roman Empire. Regardless, Columbus or Colón as he is known to us, was an agent of Spain and executed the will of the Spanish monarchy.


Penitent_Exile t1_ixn4iga wrote

I agree. America was Spanish achievement regardless of Columbus's heritage. But, still, for some people it might be heart-warming knowing he was "one of ours".


ElHeim t1_ixvgdt4 wrote

They should read a bit more about his biography before feeling that heart-warming feeling.


Trextrev t1_ixk1fg9 wrote

You keep using the term “Americas” when Columbus didn’t discover or rediscover The Americas. They were named after Amerigo Vespucci who was the first European to spot them in 1501. As far as Columbus knew he just found some new islands “West Indies”.


ImThatAnnoyingGuy t1_ixkqqgl wrote

You’re technically correct, but given that Columbus sailed in 1492 and discovered islands in the Caribbean, he is generally given credit for discovering the “New World.” At least that was the story when I was kid some 30+ years ago. History gets revised and refined as new sources are uncovered and reconciled with the existing body of literature/evidence. Vespucci came after Columbus on subsequent voyages that aimed to understand the scope of Columbus’ discovery. I am not sure if anyone actually referred to the previously unknown (to 15-16th Century Europeans) lands as the Americas at the time, but it’s a modern convention aimed at making it simple to refer to the lands that would be uncovered as a result of his “discovery.”


bafangoolNJ t1_ixi68a1 wrote

Did he really discover it if a) we were already here? And B) the first Europeans to arrive were Vikings.


SeleucusNikator1 t1_ixiskf9 wrote

> Did he really discover it if a) we were already here? And B) the first Europeans to arrive were Vikings.

"Discover" can also mean discovering it for the Eurasian and African worlds, and I'd say he did discover it because the Vikings never shared their information with anyone and their voyages had no lasting impact outside of the very small area they were present in.

Norse Vinland is an interesting bit of history, but ultimately it did not matter much to the world since the colony quickly died out and the Norsemen did not establish any sustainable and long-lasting trade route or maintained contact with that land. Columbus is the famous one because he went back, told everyone what he found, and his voyage is what began the actual centuries only process of settlement, conquest, etc. which changed both continents forever.


bafangoolNJ t1_ixit7kg wrote

Thanks for the perspective.


ElHeim t1_ixvgzjd wrote

For additional perspective, there's also been the claim that a famous Chinese captain "discovered" the New World some 70 years earlier.

But it's all irrelevant for the same reason: the Chinese were about to get totally focused on themselves, they didn't share the discovery. Actually, if it happened, they actively suppressed all knowledge of it.

No further contact, no spreading of the knowledge = no impact.

It's like when you invent some new device. if you sit on it and someone else creates the same thing, then patents it, they get all the credit.


RegumRegis t1_ixiey1b wrote

Yeah. He was the one to you know, actually bother to record what he was doing and spread the information.


Pleasant_Skill2956 t1_ixh4t6q wrote

Cristoforo Colombo (Christopher Columbus) was born in Genoa, Italy to Genoese parents. The Spaniards have been trying to invent stories for centuries to be able to claim it


Jesus_Tyrone t1_ixhgng3 wrote

If you actually got deep into that information you would find out that there is no reliable evidence that he was born in Genoa. The thesis was overshadow buy the patriotic Italian sentiment during the unification of the country.

They say he was born in a regular poor family but he knew multiple languages and had a lot of influence himself before the voyages. There is no record of an address either.


gneccofes t1_ixil4r2 wrote

He literally wrote in his will that he was born in Genoa


Crapedj t1_ixiokay wrote

There is literally Columbus father family house in the city of Genua and several documents about Columbus father living in genua and being from genua, what do you mean?


Pleasant_Skill2956 t1_ixhi22n wrote

In Italy there is all the evidence, only for the Spaniards "strangely" it is doubted. And it is in fact much more probable that it is the Spaniards who invent stories given that he is the most important person in Spanish history and therefore they do not accept that he was born in Italy


belokas t1_ixhro66 wrote

There has been almost zero evidence for that. No reason to claim otherwise. He himself never said he was Italian, or rather Genoese, he wrote countless of letters and diaries but never a word in Italian.


gneccofes t1_ixil826 wrote

He wrote in his will that he was born in Genoa


belokas t1_ixiqrhu wrote

As far as I know (not much in fact) the will has been disputed, but my point here is that it's baseless to claim Columbus was Italian, when we at most can attest his birthplace (and even "Genova" could be both the city and the Republic of Genoa, so there are different cities in Liguria who claim to be his birthplace) But my point is that he basically lived his whole life in the Iberian peninsula, and never really gave any hints about being part of a different nationality. Also "nations" and national identity can't be intended in the modern sense here. Another thing is that, in his will he calls himself Colon not Colombo, as the Genoese theory claims his name should be. I think that's still a valid hypothesis, but it's far from being a historical proven fact.


Tom1380 t1_ixj9cwi wrote

There are 2, and they're 7km away from each other


tsaimaitreya t1_ixhpssr wrote

You aren't technically wrong but these claims are made out of regional pride. Many regions have claims to be the authentic homeland of Columbus, like Galicia, Catalonia or Mallorca. Bona fide spanish nationalists have no problem with him being italian at all, as he was still serving Spain. Italians doing great service to the spanish crown was a common sight these days (Andrea Doria, Spinola, Farnesio, the marquis of Pescara...)


gneccofes t1_ixiksfc wrote

Italy didn't exist at the time and his real name was Cristoffa Corombo. Cristoforo Colombo is the Italian translation


Pleasant_Skill2956 t1_ixjjuoa wrote

The concept of Italy is 3000 years old, the current political state did not exist but to say that it was born in Italy is 100% correct. His original name is Cristoforo Colombo , the rest are translations


kaubojdzord t1_ixjn9fy wrote

Cristoffa Corombo is name in Ligurian language, which Columbus probably spoke natively as he was from Genoa. Most Italians didn't speak Italian until the unification, they spoke their regional languages, like Ligurian.


gneccofes t1_ixjnlbw wrote

What you said is simply untrue. Columbus would've never identified as an Italian, he identified as a Genoese. His native tongue was Genoese, hence his original name was Cristoffa Corombo. Cristoforo Colombo is the Italian translation.


JMKraft t1_ixic9t6 wrote

Portuguese tinfoil hat on:

Columbus was a Portuguese plant meant to distract the Spanish from competing in the African route to India, that's part of the wrongful insistence on them being "Indians".

Other things:

-Most of the names he gave to new found land were names of villages close to his hometown of Cuba, Alentejo (south of Portugal). Portuguese Cuba was called Cuba since at least the 13th century.

-He wrote in Castellan with typical errors of Portuguese natives.

-The papal bull regarding his travels write his name using exclusively Portuguese accent characters (the ~)

-In his early days, he married a Portuguese noblewoman from Madeira and lived with her there (very far from his supposed hometown where the names come from), something very hard to achieve if he was actually just a Genoan wool weaver.


Some other theories say that he actually wanted to go to America, and was refused by the Portuguese king, and that's why he went to the work for the Spanish.


ElHeim t1_ixvht0d wrote

>Most of the names he gave to new found land were names of villages close to his hometown of Cuba

Good attempt, Columbus named the island "Juana" (or Ioanna, or whatever at that time).


predki87 t1_ixj6hb2 wrote

I’m polish-Canadian and we will take your Columbus Day if you Dont want it.


bluvasa t1_ixibo17 wrote

So they opened up his supposed cousin's tomb because no one will grant them access to Columbus' own bones? If there was a legitimate argument about his ancestry, wouldn't going directly to the source be better.


h8br33der85 t1_ixiltgi wrote

Is it just me or does he look like Christopher Walken in the picture? lol


bettinafairchild t1_ixj2vxl wrote

Just hoping they don't discover he's Jewish (there's a theory). That would be a shitshow.


Ninja-Sneaky t1_ixj7eth wrote

Yes I had this remarkable conversation with my spanish colleague who said Columbus was spanish while I contended Columbus was Italian


Tom1380 t1_ixj91h2 wrote

I live in Genoa, I hope he's from here. I've seen his supposed house many times


Royal_Bumblebee_ t1_iycqy5o wrote

what a badly written article. no explanation of what the reasearchers are looking for other than "DNA" and how/why this would prove columbus' place of birth...etc


mboswi t1_ixjjgqq wrote

He was not not Italian. Several forensic linguistic analysis proved this theory wrong a long time ago, but the media has just been repeating the same for ages.

The theory of him being Galician is partially based on several weird coincidences, like the fact that he used for places discovered in America the same names of places in Galicia, particularly of the Spanish province of Pontevedra. Something that draws special attention is that he used river Xallas in America for a river that flows into sea in a waterfall. And guess what? There is a river Xallas in Galicia, that also flows into the Atlantic ocean forming a waterfall, and it's the only one in western Europe. There are some other examples like this.

There are some other reasons. Let's see what happens.


Trextrev t1_ixk2450 wrote

Europe is still debating over where Columbus was born, even going as far as to exhume a clerics body. Meanwhile America is like “who cares let’s scrub his name from the continent”.


handle_pending t1_ixkonxs wrote

After all the centuries, why does it matter?


ehunke t1_ixhtgsc wrote

not an expert but not a year goes by we don't find out something new that makes the historical relevancy of Columbus less and less, I just don't understand why they care to this degree.


mboswi t1_ixjkgvj wrote

He was not Italian. This theory was debunked several years ago by forensic linguistic analysis, but the media and the general public still been repeating it.

The theory of him being Galician is partially based on several weird coincidences, like the fact that he used for places discovered in America the same names of places in Galicia, particularly of the Spanish province of Pontevedra. Something that draws special attention is that he used river Xallas in America for a river that flows into sea in a waterfall. And guess what? There is a river Xallas in Galicia, that also flows into the Atlantic ocean forming a waterfall, and it's the only one in western Europe.

There are some other examples like this. There are some other reasons. Anyhow, there al also other explanations for them. Let's see what happens.


mboswi t1_ixjky9m wrote

If you don't believe what I say, look, for example, for river Minho and Xallahs in modern Jamaica. The same names are famous Galician rivers: Miño and Xallas. You can look for them too. The Miño is the longest river in Galicia, and longest river in Jamaica is... Minho too :P XD


Vorc70 t1_ixhw8sd wrote

So frigging dig someone up to settle an argument? What PIECES O S