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Aoeletta t1_iz0aim9 wrote

Reply to comment by questingbear2000 in How did Native American tribes indigenous to Yellowstone National Park (e.g., Shoshone, Blackfeet, Crow, etc.) perceive the land (e.g., thoughts on geothermal activity) and what was their relationship like with white/European trappers and explorers entering the region in the early 1800s? by electricdresses

I appreciate you asking, and I will answer honestly and as gently as I can.

It is inherently racist to say, “or is there something really tragically useful that has been lost?”

Yes. The perspective and culture and first-person history of the tribal communities that existed in this land before colonization is fascinating, beautiful, varied, and we lost it because of genocide. That is a tragic loss.

To ask if it is “useful” is to say that you have no interest in cultural history and see it through a utilitarian lens rather than a human experience lens. It doesn’t have to be “useful” in a practical way for the loss of art, culture, language, history to be grieved.

Many of the tribal nations had a more oratory history tradition, so by killing people, killing the language, stealing the children, and relocation we lost all of that passed on history. To a historian, to people interested in other cultures, to people who study US geography… yes. That seems like a huge loss.

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jeffersonairmattress t1_iz0d8m2 wrote

In BC we have only recently found archeological and geological evidence of phenomena and practices that First Nations have maintained as oral truths for thousands of years- imagine how much was erased with disease, other murder and cultural erasure.

Ancient Comox fish traps, sunken undersea gardens….

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TheBlueSully t1_iz18y2p wrote

Gardens in the forest a bit south(but in the same/similar ecosystem. So probably existed up there, too).

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verdigrizz t1_iz0cgr2 wrote

Good on you for being able to answer that with such grace. What a ridiculous question.

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DeaddyRuxpin t1_iz0jbsf wrote

Be very careful with slamming people with comments like it being a “ridiculous question”. Unless the person is an obvious troll you don’t want to turn them off from asking questions. It is much better that they asked the question and then had it answered and explained what they were missing in their perspective that lead to the question being necessary. Calling it ridiculous will turn off the person from asking more questions which will only serve to perpetuate their lack of understanding and potential insensitivity towards other cultures.

A lot of people are raised and educated in very homogeneous environments. If their exposure to history has only been to big topics like Greek and Roman culture where we have a massive amount of data, they may not realize how lacking we are in North and South American indigenous history. Their question may have been more along the lines of thinking someone was showing concern over losing a bit of Roman graffiti or a Greek city-state’s local variation of deity worship. Sure loss of that sucks, but they aren’t likely to be revolutionary in our understanding of the cultures.

From that perspective they asked a legitimate question. Is there something in particular we have lost with indigenous history that is significant or is it simply the loss of another longhouse that is fundamentally the same as a dozen others. The response they received was great as it was polite and explained that not only is all cultural history significant but in fact we have lost so much indigenous history that we don’t know far more than we do know.

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ftbc t1_iz0mlpv wrote

To put it another way: What was lost was basically the pinnacle of stone age culture. They are right that it can't be given a lot of tangible value--but the loss of ten thousand years of cultural evolution is still something to note. 90% of an entire branch of humanity was wiped out. We should regret it no matter how little value it offered.

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aganesh8 t1_iz0nquc wrote

It can't be given a lot of tangible value? According to what? Science? How do you know what would've come of it, if it was peaceful integration? Your take on it, is still patronizing

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ftbc t1_iz0qmby wrote

The plagues that decimated the population were inevitable, and those destroyed much of the culture with no special effort by the invaders. Certainly any of thousands of variables would have led to different cultural outcomes, but the native population was so vastly outnumbered after the Old World diseases got done with them that their contribution to the larger picture of humanity was bound to be limited no matter how they were treated.

Ultimately, I don't see a compelling reason to think the world would be substantially different had the genocides not driven them to the brink of extinction.

Edit: to be clear and reiterate my previous point: the loss of culture is a tragic loss no doubt. I'm simply saying that there isn't any way to put a value on that beyond "we don't know things about this culture" which is somewhat circular. There are a lot of cultures we know almost nothing about that were lost to history because they died out or were assimilated. Knowledge is a worthwhile goal in itself, but to say it has any usefulness beyond the satisfaction of simply knowing it is a stretch.

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