Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

Lessa22 t1_iziloa7 wrote

That was a fascinating read, thanks for sharing!

37

frenchchevalierblanc t1_izirvtg wrote

She is "Madame" because she was married to the brother of the king still in line for succession, which was addressed usually as "Monsieur".

She was apparently feeling "miserable" because Monsieur didn't care much about her, from the text.

596

shillyshally t1_iziuipi wrote

Fascinating - what an extraordinary woman.

17

nightcrawleress t1_iziyo76 wrote

Replying to frenchchevalierblanc (#892,527)

He didn't care and was utterly neglecting her in favor of a life of pleasure surrounded by courtship of followers, whom made rumors and depreciated madame. And left her with humongous debts upon his death. She also came from less intriguing/plotting use, opposite of the french viper nest

384

weedysexdragon t1_iziyp0s wrote

Watch Versailles. The actress who plays her is great as is the guy who plays Monsieur.

174

gullevek t1_izj0tgb wrote

Read the whole thing and then realized there is a german version. Oh boy :D

9

kosmokomeno t1_izj2ppq wrote

I'd never heard it phrased the "Palatinate War of Succession". In English we include it in the wider Nine years war, right? I'd be curious to know how she felt about the French destroying her family home in Heidelberg, though many women in history probably encountered the same kind of stress

82

rnkllr t1_izj4fez wrote

Replying to kosmokomeno (#892,990)

She resented it judging by her letters. Not to mention that she was raised Protestant and lived at a very intolerant, if not bigoted, Catholic court.

I’d recommend reading the letters if you can find them in your language, they’re very witty and intelligent. She seemed to be quite the woman.

34

doegred t1_izj502m wrote

Replying to kosmokomeno (#892,990)

It's mentioned in the article?

>French troops marched into the Electoral Palatinate, laying waste towns, villages and fields and destroying Heidelberg Castle: “It makes my heart bleed, and they still hold it against me that I’m sad about it”, lamented Liselotte.

The Ck2 player in me felt a twinge of guilt.

104

kosmokomeno t1_izj817j wrote

Replying to doegred (#893,096)

Jesus how did i miss that

Edit i must have been distracted googling the war of succession, that's so heartbreaking to imagine them giving her grief for her own grief

3

FartIntoMyButt t1_izjcsts wrote

Funny lady. My favorite anecdote from this is that she was aware her mail was read by someone at the court before being sent out, so after telling a story about breaking a chamber pot while doing her business, she added the equivalent of "oh boy I sure hope the person reading this tells the king about it, it's clearly a matter of national security"

My kind of lady

1,186

stocks-mostly-lower t1_izjgqrr wrote

Replying to frenchchevalierblanc (#892,527)

Monsieur was gay and had an active love life, which goes a long way to explain why she thought that being his wife was very difficult. She was a good (non-romantic) friend of his older brother Louis XVI, though, so her husband wasn’t allowed to be too abusive to her.

212

passporttohell t1_izjjzhk wrote

Going to enjoy reading this, in the middle of 'Versaille' on Netflix, highly recommended mostly true examination of life back in the day, really engrossing miniseries filmed for the most part at Versaille.

25

passporttohell t1_izjotgc wrote

Replying to weedysexdragon (#892,805)

In the middle of my 2nd or 3rd watch through now, yes the actress who portrays her is great, really does a good job of showing what a remarkable woman she was.

Just finished up the part where Henriette, Philip's first wife may have been poisoned...

12

passporttohell t1_izjp7rx wrote

Replying to stocks-mostly-lower (#893,757)

Multi faceted and yet a bit of a jerk towards his wives, unfortunately. To say nothing of his lover. . . So much intrigue at he Sun King's court. . . I think that if I were in the middle of all this I would not do well at all. . .

20

atvar8 t1_izjpazt wrote

Replying to FartIntoMyButt (#893,380)

My favorite line was “You can’t cry all the time, it doesn’t help at all; laughing is good for your health, pooping and farting met verlöff [if you will forgive me] also help a great deal”

Based on your username, I'd have thought you would have picked it too! Maybe it was a little too "on the nose".

Lol

405

Olstinkbutt t1_izjsf9g wrote

TIL the casting on “Versailles” was quite good lol

41

DaddyCatALSO t1_izjy5hf wrote

I think I need to read this; might help me to put togetehr a plot for *The White-Roofed City* insetad of 28 years of rewriting the sex scenes.

1

s33murd3r t1_izk74qx wrote

Pretty ironic that the wealthy are some of the most miserable people on the planet.

0

gggggrrrrrrrrr t1_izkc1i5 wrote

Replying to Olstinkbutt (#894,018)

Except for when it came to the "sexy" female characters. Whoever was in charge of the casting had a very distinct type and picked these angular, broad-boned Kiera-Knightleyish actresses every time the plot called for a random floozy.

The beauty ideal back then was all about soft, rounded delicacy, so it was an odd choice. The actress they cast as Madame de Montespan was especially jarring.

56

stocks-mostly-lower t1_izkdjm6 wrote

Replying to nyanlol (#894,598)

This is the tragic history Louis of Borbon, the young legitimated son of King Louis XIV. He was the nephew of Monsieur (Prince Phillipe) who was the brother of the king. Along with his handsome and utterly corrupt longtime lover the Duc de Lorraine, Philippe seduced the vulnerable boy. The boy’s father, King Louis XIV, and his mother, Madame Louise de Valliere, blamed the kid for the sexual assault/affair, and had nothing more to do with him. Ever.

Louis de Borbon joined the French army, and died in battle at the age of 16. His parents only had callous things to say about his death.

I dearly hope that this poor child was welcomed to heaven after such a tragic life. This is an excellent little documentary about him.

https://youtu.be/-xFklYllrdk

83

letssnark t1_izkvzrz wrote

Replying to nyanlol (#894,598)

Apparently she really loved children and took an active role in the lives of her step daughters, and not just when they were small, but for the rest of her life. From what I've read, she actually sounds like a decent person, and felt out of place at Versailles with the intrigue and back stabbing. She was an extensive letter writer, so there is quite a lot of information about her life through those.

82

aaronjer t1_izkw0ih wrote

Replying to s33murd3r (#894,627)

It's not ironic, it's expected. Wealth and power don't only happen to bad people, and don't cause them to be bad, they just expose how bad they are. Very few people remain decent and harmless when they don't have to be to survive.

6

Olstinkbutt t1_izl36zt wrote

Replying to gggggrrrrrrrrr (#894,847)

I never considered that. Great point. Her character was hilarious too. She’s one of the main reasons I wanted a few more seasons, bc she was bound to be quite compelling. Turns out she was in real life as well.

15

ProfessorJAM t1_izlet9q wrote

Is there a biography of her? Would love to read it ( in English, though).

5

Monowhale t1_izls96n wrote

There’s a TV show called Versailles that has her as a character, it’s pretty good if you like period piece dramas.

1

voltaire_had_a_point t1_izlvbqj wrote

Replying to ProfessorJAM (#896,479)

She wrote her own memoirs, they’re freely availabke on Gutenberg and google books. Very entertaining 200~ pages.

If you’re still interested in the era afterwards, it’s time to read saint simon, the “king” of memoirs and the primary source for the late sun king rule and the regency.

3

DaddyCatALSO t1_izm55w5 wrote

Replying to bremen_ (#896,027)

No the Quakers oriignaiuted in England, I mean t the Mennonites, Amish, Ephrata 7th Day Baptists, Schwenkfelders etc. , evne the Moravians were almsot plain-style int hsoe days. The Brehtren/Dunkards cmae over later becuase they originated later

1

alex-b4 t1_izm94vz wrote

Replying to frenchchevalierblanc (#892,527)

I believe Monsieur was gay and she was also considered as very masculine, there was a saying about them: "Monsieur est tres 'madame' et Madame est tres 'monsieur' ", can't do better than translating it by "Monsieur is very 'madame' and Madame is very 'monsieur' ".

10

EarlGreyTea-Hawt t1_izmdavh wrote

Replying to Danivelle (#893,585)

He was such an ass to Henriette. But a lot of people were. The French court was just awful, it chewed up some of the best women of the nobility (and men, but I'm deep diving into Catherine Medici, so I'm feeling salty about the Medici women in France).

3

EarlGreyTea-Hawt t1_izme7gx wrote

Replying to letssnark (#895,699)

The fact that she thought her letters would be destroyed makes them so personal. She out wrote in correspondence the famously prolific Montesquieu...but she wasn't writing in his highly stylized manner meant for posterity, so it's really revealing about the quotidian life of nobles of the court.

14

EarlGreyTea-Hawt t1_izmhanc wrote

Can anyone recommend some good history books (no historical fiction please unless it's ridiculously amazing, I'm not a lover of romance writing and his-fic tends to be lousy with it) on Liselotte in particular or something about the court at the time that includes a sizable section about her?

1

Danivelle t1_izmi3hz wrote

For all that want to read about Catherine de Medici: The Serpent Queen by Jeanne Kalogardis(sp?) And there's a good one about Diane De Poitiers that I'll go find for anyone that one for anyone that wants it once I recover from my asthma attack.

1

abdoelsheik t1_izouf4r wrote

Hi guys I got subscriptions for Curiositystream and HistoryVault the well known documentary streaming services for 50% off their original price if you interested please dm

0

ThatGIRLkimT t1_izwmm8v wrote

Thanks for the information. It is awesome!

1