Kitahara_Kazusa1 t1_j0lu805 wrote on December 17, 2022 at 5:23 PM

So I was watching the US National Archives interview with Peter Shinkle about his new book, and one thing he brings up towards the end is that, according to him

>"After the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki on August 6 and 9, the Japanese formally offered to surrender, again on the condition that the Emperor keep his throne.

https://youtu.be/sRBes3Bs6I8?t=2730

He then goes on to say that Truman accepted this proposal from the Japanese. Also, if you rewind that video a bit, he says that the Japanese had made a similar offer before the atomic bombs were dropped.

This kind of contradicts a lot of what I have heard. My previous understanding was that prior to the August 14th, the Japanese had offered to surrender several times, but always with the condition that the Emperor would not only remain alive, but also retain his powers as an absolute monarch. Then on August 14th, they agreed to surrender unconditionally. I've occasionally heard things saying that prior to the Japanese agreeing to surrender we told them we would let the Emperor stay alive, but these seemed to come from less reliable sources.

Tl;dr, do any of you know exactly what kind of guarantees did the Japanese have about the treatment of the Emperor, and Japan in general, in the postwar environment in 1945?

TheGreatOneSea t1_j0mwfeh wrote on December 17, 2022 at 9:50 PM

I'm fairly certain any claim that Japan would accept the Potsdam Declaration before the nuclear bombings is just outright wrong: Japan was still operating under the assumption that the USSR might be willing to negotiate on Japan's behalf before the USSR's own invasion, so Japan still believed it might be able to hold on to something at that point.

PolybiusChampion t1_j0m1r4s wrote on December 17, 2022 at 6:16 PM

The best single volume (short) on this is Ronald Henkoff’s Inferno. In short, nothing short of unconditional surrender was acceptable to the US, and every offer from the Japanese prior to accepting the US’s position that the emperor renounce his divinity was off the table. There were even a couple of coup attempts after the 2nd bomb was dropped. Ultimately the emperor himself recorded his acceptance of the terms of surrender and that was broadcast to the country. Henkoff’s book is easily read in an afternoon and then if you want to dig further you’ll have a pretty solid base of knowledge.

Kitahara_Kazusa1 t1_j0m3yxn wrote on December 17, 2022 at 6:31 PM

Yeah, that's about what I thought, which is why I thought it was so strange that a published author was saying that Truman did accept a conditional surrender. But I guess he is just wrong on this point

PolybiusChampion t1_j0m7kk4 wrote on December 17, 2022 at 6:55 PM

People tend to conflate some of the issues around the surrender for various reasons. The quick and dirty facts are that the surrender was unconditional and nothing short of complete acceptance of the allied occupation and creation of a post war constitution was going to fly. Now, the issue of the emperor was a little opaque. McArthur could have removed him day one, and that’s what Hirohito expected to happen, but McArthur decided he’d be better off with him at the head of a constitutional monarchy but he did require him to formally renounce his divinity in Jan. of 1946.

Prior to the formal surrender acceptance the Japanese had been steadfast that the emperor would remain, and remain divine.

The safe, swift and mostly violence free immediate landing of troops on Japan was an amazing result after such a brutal war.