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AllBluringIntoOne t1_j1m2j4h wrote

When my dad was young at the time of the revolution he participated in the protests in rasht and later in tehran. From the things he told me, it seemed like everyone knew what they didn't want, which was the shah. But they weren't too clear on what happened after they got rid of him because they thought it couldn't get worse. And people insisted on doing it no matter who they united with. After the revolution, khomeini quickly squashed a lot of the people and groups that aided in the revolution and the war helped the ir become permenant.

Edit: (forget the permenant, i'm optimistic about the new revolution)

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ReecoElryk OP t1_j1m4npz wrote

This is close to what I had assumed, people just wanted to get rid of the Shah, they saw Khomeini as a leader and rallied behind him, even if in hindsight that wasn't a very good idea. Also I hadn't considered that the following war had helped cement the new government, but it does make a lot of sense. Thank you for the answer.

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fiendishrabbit t1_j1mphiq wrote

It's a bit more complicated, and Khomeini was more the "last man standing" after the Shah had used support from the US and British foreign intelligence services to de-organize and effectively weaken the democratic/liberal rebels (which were city based).

The religiously motivated rebels, who had the majority of their support in the countryside, were not as vulnerable to such tactics and ended up being the strongest rebel group. As such Khomeini gradually managed to sweep up more and more rebel groups under his banner.

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BrazilianMerkin t1_j1n7r1u wrote

Isn’t that one of the most important and destructive aspects for why so many countries are in perpetual sociopolitical turmoil? In the Middle East/N Africa, the West used preexisting cultural/religious differences when creating the new nations after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

Next they created governments who would be subservient to the West. Enthnic/religious minorities of those countries in many instances, willing to do whatever needed for the outside assistance to stay in power.

Then during the Cold War, certain Western nations (we all know who) would systematically assassinate, imprison, and destroy the intellectual class (not correct term I know… basically the smart political liberals) justified by preventing communism. There was very little communism, just people wanting democratic governance, and wanting democratic governance apparently reeks of socialism.

By the time actual political upheaval happened, there were no sensible leaders/proto-parties remaining to fill the void, so the religious zealots and/or military assumed control.

All that outside interference and destruction of democratic movements out of fear of communism really stunted ability for huge swaths of the world to grow.

See it lingering today in most of South America, Egypt, etc.

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Tyg13 t1_j1ngmgy wrote

I'd even go so far as to say that the inadvertent suppression of democracy due to "fear of communism" wasn't inadvertent at all. As much as the West loves democracy, they really only seem to want it when it's to their benefit. A democratic resource-rich nation might have a bunch of annoying citizens that vote not to allow the systematic exploitation of their country. Dictatorships and juntas are much more reliable to control.

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Josquius t1_j1px21y wrote

The fundamental framing of the cold War as democracy or communism that is so common in the west annoys me so much. Its comparing a system of government and an economic system (or rather an economically focussed ideology).

Capitalism vs Marxism is a much better framing for what the cold War was about. That the USSR was a dictatorship and US a democracy is completely incidental to their economic systems.

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International_Bet_91 t1_j1owmb3 wrote

I think it's also important to note that young, educated, Iranian communists -- living in exile in Europe because of the Shah's hatred of communists -- were the ones who popularized Khomeini's words by recording them in Europe and smuggling them into Iran. Pamphlets were not enough, the rural population was largely illiterate, and since mosques were monitored by the Shah's secret police, the tapes were key.

The communists saw Khomeini and his followers as useful idiots: they intended to use Khomeini's religious rhetoric to whip the masses into an anti-monarchist frenzy, and once the Shah was gone, the communists thought they could take over power.

As we know know, the communists underestimated the Mullahs' power and brutality: once the Shah was gone, the Islamists turned on the communists.

There have been some heart-breaking expressions of remorse from these communists in recent years The Cassette Tapes that caused the Iranian Revolution.

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davtruss t1_j1mvd1x wrote

Even though the hostage crisis that coincided with the IR was daily news in the U.S. until the hostages were finally released just before Reagan's inauguration, very few Americans paid much attention to the war between Iran and Iraq from 1980-1988. Your point about that solidifying the IR is spot on because Saddam was also viewed as a secular American political puppet, not to mention Sunni Arab.

The death toll varies, but it is agreed to be somewhere between 1 million and 2 million, with Iran getting the worst of it. Iran countered Saddam's superior military with human wave tactics by soldiers as young as 15.

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