Accessibility lifts at the grove street path are absurdly bad

Submitted by FoamythePuppy t3_11cqaz2 in jerseycity

For a place which is super liberal and claims to be working on accessibility, the PATH lifts that I’ve seen are unacceptably bad.

For those that haven’t seen the lifts, you have to hold a button for a solid 3 minutes to have the lift slowly come down from the station. I just witnessed a wheelchair bound lady who needed to get bystander help to hold the button since it took so long and so much effort.

I timed it and it took almost 7 minutes of firm button presses to get out of the station. There is no reason for this and it’s a huge problem for the people that actually need to use it

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bodhipooh t1_ja4gdzq wrote

For the umpteenth time: the city of Jersey City has NOTHING to do with PATH. They have no say or control over what the Port Authority chooses to do, or not do, with regards to PATH stations or operations.

If you HOPE to have your voice heard, direct your complaints and rants to the Port Authority of NY and NJ.

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FoamythePuppy OP t1_ja5908n wrote

I don’t really understand the passive aggressive comment here, I never stated it has anything to do with jersey city. Does the PATH have a subreddit? Would you rather me not have posted anything at all and not raised attention to the issue?

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suztomo t1_ja5cl8g wrote

Your 1st sentence in the post.

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FoamythePuppy OP t1_ja5kmh1 wrote

Okay well happy that people are so focused on that they don’t care about the issue

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BenevolentCheese t1_ja6o0vg wrote

One thing I've learned from my years on reddit is that you could post a fucking Pulitzer-worthy essay on here and if there is a single sentence in there that annoys people they will completely ignore everything else you have done and laser focus on that unforgivable offense. The secret to posting successfully on reddit is not giving people a single thing they can latch onto like that.

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thisoneagain t1_ja7et6r wrote

You do not deserve these downvotes or this criticism. Like all social institutions, the PATH is the result of the community that made it. It's absurd to say it's not Jersey City's problem, even if it's not directly under the control of the Jersey City government.

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CylonRaider87 t1_ja56f62 wrote

I just don't understand why. From a mechanical/electrical engineering perspective, you're spending all this money to install something there. A device which ferries individuals up and down on a flat surface, and sure, you want to cut some corners to shave the price down. So you cut the mechanism to run the motor for a set time between levels...

But you're not losing the required safety mechanisms to determine the doors shouldn't open if it's in between levels, the ability the determine if it's on a level at all, etc, so you've chosen something seemingly minor to cut by having to hold the button for forever, thereby inconveniencing or straight up excluding someone who's mobility issues might extend beyond just their legs. So...why PATH contractors? It just seems like a jerk move with little gain you know?

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objectimpermanence t1_ja7wn3z wrote

I think the reason is that it's technically a platform lift and not a full-fledged elevator. Because the lift isn't fully enclosed (there's no ceiling), I believe there are safety regulations that require the user to continually press a button for safety reasons.

Supposedly, there was not enough space or clearance to build a proper elevator between the mezzanine and platform levels, so we ended up with this contraption.

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Wrkncacnter112 t1_ja88wwl wrote

This is my understanding as well. If your backpack, etc. gets caught on the wall, you can let go of the button to immediately stop the lift.

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rtadoyle t1_ja7gztn wrote

To be fair, they only had a weekend to build it, so they had to cut corners

/s

My theories are (and I have no qualifications for this)

  1. make it bad to deter able bodies folks from using it
  2. since it's literally underneath the street, there's no room above the elevator for extra mechanics (and maybe a similar concept for the bottom, where it'd be too deep? )

But yeah, it sucks.

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malcior09 t1_ja5g2yc wrote

Having a bad knee injury, I ended up needing the lift and my god it was a nightmare. It added 30 minutes to my commute, longer if there was a line for it. Total nightmare set up too with the constant push button. I’ll heal, but I can’t imagine how unbelievably awful this would be for anyone who might need a lift 24/7. Not to mention all the other ways JC is not ADA friendly.

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moobycow t1_ja4g7q0 wrote

Can't blame the city for PATH related stuff, they have no say over anything. Hell, I'm convinced the Port Authority goes out of their way to fuck with the PATH out of spite.

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Nope- t1_ja4kjq3 wrote

That elevator is literally a spite elevator, it was only built as a result of a looong and expensive lawsuit that forced them to do it. It is absolutely bare minimum spec to the letter of the law and was done so intentionally.

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Perps_MacAbean t1_ja4tl89 wrote

Furthermore, it was the City of Jersey City who sued PANYNJ. So in this case, our city govt did something right

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_ja5a3ui wrote

Not really. You’re largely making that up.

There’s not many options on what you can install. Each elevator manufacturer only offers a few outdoor public spaces elevators. Only one or two will meet the spec for that space. And ADA is specific in terms of everything needed for compliance with any elevator.

Most of the options are things like floor color, cab lighting, if you want a screen to show ads etc.

Oh and there’s like 3 or 4 companies in North America that do elevators now. All the brands are basically owned by the same folks.

They basically just rubber stamped it and took the lowest bid, which was likely only the lowest by a couple thousand dollars.

There’s no real choice in this crap beyond a few design elements that bolt into place.

And yes, new elevators are notably slower than old ones. You can thank new laws in a bunch of states and lawsuits forcing them to slow down public space elevators for accessibility purposes Door times are slower, even movement was slowed since it impacts and disorients some people with inner ear issues if it moves to fast… but those type of people OP gives 0 shits about (i actually know someone with this affliction).

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Nope- t1_ja861o2 wrote

I don't know about that...why is it like the worst new elevator in North America then? Also Port Authority's elevator game seems fine in WTC and Harrison where they actually care. They spent 7 and a half years trying to fight it, and it's basically an open secret that they did the shoddiest job possible. Even that 3 year deadline to build it that they promised wasn't met, and Fulop had to publicly call out that there are literally entire high rises that were being built faster than this elevator.

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_ja872w3 wrote

Then find the places where they cut corners. Actual documentation vs conspiracy theory crap. I know you won’t (because it doesn’t exist), but if your claims were real you would have.

That’s not how elevators work. There’s a handful of models, you collect a few bids since each vendor has 1-2 and pick your floor color. That’s really all there is to it. You have more choices in iPhones than elevators.

These aren’t custom implementations. That’s not a thing. There’s no corners to cut outside of some decorative trim pieces and flooring material. You get what’s offered. Then the city inspects and approves it once installed.

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Nope- t1_ja87dmr wrote

Uhh, how about having to hold the button down to go up and down? Where is the conspiracy in that, you can go and literally try it out right now. Is there a single other elevator you've ever used that requires that? It is absolutely absurd to try to convince people to believe that is considered "standard" functionality anywhere in the modern world. Who knows if it's a cut corner, maybe it even cost them EXTRA to spite us.

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jgweiss t1_ja4v5dx wrote

of course they do, they are a tolling company and this train loses money. they would prefer you get to New York on a cargo ship than the path.

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Jetlagador_Spartacus t1_ja67jkz wrote

Board Meeting Speaker Registration Form (Next board meeting March 16 @ 2 Montgomery St. Jersey City with Virtual Option)

https://www.panynj.gov/forms/af/port-authority/path-contact-us.html

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FoamythePuppy OP t1_ja7nm3g wrote

This is wonderful, thank you for posting this. I can’t believe the top comment is bitching about the post location when they could have made a difference by sharing this.

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Economy-Cupcake808 t1_ja4oio0 wrote

At least it’s something. NYC subway only has elevators in some stations

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VanWorst t1_ja4segb wrote

Same with NYC PATH, for that matter

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Economy-Cupcake808 t1_ja52r8w wrote

I hardly ever ride the midtown line, are those stations not accessible?

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VanWorst t1_ja55bzb wrote

Only 33rd is. The rest have only narrow twisty stairways

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badquarter t1_ja5xzce wrote

I forget how many years it didn't work, so they spent $1m on that elevator. I remember there was even a post about it here and people joked, "I wonder how long until it doesn't work again." I think it stopped working the next week?

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pratnala t1_ja646e8 wrote

It stops working very frequently. I'm in a wheelchair and I'm glad I'm near journal square instead. If I stayed near Grove, I'd just do the short roll to exchange place

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BenevolentCheese t1_ja6nqf4 wrote

It used to be faster, when it was new. By no means fast, but certainly better than the monstrosity it has become. Apparently the area didn't have the space necessary to install a traditional elevator, so they needed to install this pneumatic lift, but that doesn't excuse how pathetically bad the lift is.

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degen_supreme t1_ja7qkqq wrote

I tried that elevator once after moving to JC out of sheer interest... at first I was confused, but I went with it.

Around ~2 feet off the ground, a great moment of self reflection began. Being a degenerate gamber, I suddenly found myself pot committed in a physical way. I suffered through those 7 minutes, suffered knowing I made the wrong decision, suffered knowing I could have pressed down and walked up faster than waiting... suffered.

When I got out of the tunnel those 7 minutes later, I knew that I had learned a great life lesson. I will never take that elevator willingly in great health ever again. and I will remember to cut my losses early, every time.

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steve91s t1_ja51irg wrote

Considering the lawsuit, they spent a ton of money on it. Maybe if it weren't for the lawsuit they could have spent more money on a better solution.

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JerseyCityGeordie t1_ja877pp wrote

You’re posting this in the wrong place. Go start a Port Authority thread and you can post this in there. The city of Jersey City cannot do anything about this and we’re tired of people who moved here 2 weeks ago complaining about things our city cannot do anything about.

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